Charles February 8th, 2008

Censor Cole Porter?

That was interesting.

I have been hard on Frank. I will get the book.

I have felt the same way in certain evangelical gatherings (wishing the ground would swallow you up).

I really enjoyed that interview. He sounds just like his Dad. Looks alot like him too.

Christov February 8th, 2008

I didn't hate this guest, and I thought I would.

Not because I'm some kind of dyed-in-the-wool Evangelical, but because every time I hear of some inaccessible-and-for-insiders-only-sounding "christian" group, activity, place, event (like, for example, L'Abri – um, is that a cheese? If you were an insider, you'd know) I want to urp.

So I expected to hear some oppositely puffed-up son of a famous guy pontificating about his counter-movement and how I should buy his book. Kind of like Dobson has his kids on his radio show flogging their puny books, only in reverse. Yes, I know Steve Brown isn't James Dobson in reverse and isn't your guest's dad…my analogy's imperfect.

Your man Frank was a pleasant surprise.

I probably won't spend a dime on his book, but may surreptitiously download it from a stolen books website in .pdf, or maybe check it out from the library. Anyway, I'm sort of glad this guy suffered and was so hungry he had to steal food (according to the excerpt from the dustcover Erik posted supra). There've been times when I've had to do that, too. Nice to know that while God makes the rain to fall on both the good and evil, and the sun to shine upon both the rich and the poor, suffering likewise sometimes befalls the winsome and the gnarly in equal measure.

Charles February 9th, 2008

I like Frank too.

But I have read all of his dad's books. The comparison of Francis Schaeffer to James Dobson is inaccurate. There is no comparison.

The only reason his dad got associated with those guys is because by the mid to late 70's, he got upset that the abortion was legal and common yet no evangelical had a problem with it or wouldn't talk about it. He was also upset over the trend toward euthanasia and considered us going down a bad path and poured his energy into the public arena. Looking back, maybe he contributed to a monster, rather than a solution. But Schaeffer was nothing at all like Dobson, Falwell, etc.

Read "The God Who Is There" or "He Is There and He Is Not Silent" and tell me if it reads like a Focus on the Family book.

I envy anyone who hasn't yet read a page of Schaeffer's works. They are in for a real trip.

Charles February 9th, 2008

And even though I haven't read a page of Frank' stuff, my guess is that I am in for a trip myself.

Derek February 10th, 2008

This was a fascinating interview. Great to hear how close his is with his mother…

BillyD February 10th, 2008

I read "The God Who Is There" about 16 years ago, recently I thought about going thru it again but my old copy of is almost completely highlighted, think I need a new copy. I enjoyed the interview with Frank…

Steve Brown Etc. » Blog Archive » America's New God: When Politics Trumps Faith February 18th, 2008

[...] hasn't done us much good yet. As Frank Schaeffer, author of Crazy for God, pointed out in a recent editorial, "In 2000, we elected a president who claimed he believed God [...]

JacquelinePenney March 8th, 2008

Your interview with Shaeffer was great!!! Loved it

Drake Owen April 9th, 2008

I heard the interview and am reading the book. I have so many mixed emotions. On one hand I can relate to what Frank is saying since I was a member of a Christian community for fifteen years that was so Crazy. It was coming to an understanding of the true gospel through the writings of Martin Luther that I was able to experience true reformation that set my conscience free from the bondage and manipulations of controling Christian authority figures.
On the other hand I have some unsettled feelings about what Frank writes, only because I wonder if he has lost the true reality of the gospel withing the context of the madness he experienced. I don't know for sure but it might be the case.

Drake Owen April 12th, 2008

Since I wrote my first comment on Frank's book I have finished the book and listened interviews and book talks. His book has been very helpful to me and I believe he is a Christian who has detoxed from a very intense environment. I know first hand that it takes many years to unwind from such intensity and sort things through.
Thank you Frank for your honesty.

Chris Anderson July 6th, 2008

I did not hear the interview but I was visting family and I got to read portions of CRAZY FOR GOD. Having been a Jesus Freak who was immensely helped by Franicis Schaeffer I was hooked. Frank does write well. For another perspective one should google for Os Guinness' review of the book on the Christianity Today blog but even after reading his review I do recommend reading it.

I remember the shock I had when I turned n the TV and saw Francis Schaeffer on TV with Jerry Falwell!!!!! I cannot express the weirdness of seeing someone who seemed to understand some basic things about culture being used by such a right winger. I never understood how Francis could be so snowed by those people. I am grateful to get a little of the background to what was going on behind the scenes.

Frank is honest and probably needs to read such books as Gabriel Fackres brief (126 pages) critique of the Religious Right on Eerdmans entitled THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT AND THE CHRISTIAN FAITH (1982) but Frank's book still sucks you in. How one wishes that Frank had read Fackre's book 25 years ago. Frank is a good writer and the subject does interest many of us who were helped at one time by his dad.

Rev. Dr. F. Christopher Anderson, York, PA

Liz October 20th, 2008

I just read Frank's book after listening to your interview with him. I enjoyed the book, and found that for the most part there were no really big surprises. Frank's mom had talked about both her husband's temper and her own tendency to "light her own sparks." I had read in other places about her over pietistic tendencies and Susan Macaulay had talked about Frank's learning problems.I always suspected that Edith Schaeffer wouldn't necessarily be the easiest person in the world to live with if simply because she had such high standards for homemaking (I always wondered how one could do all she did – now I know it's because she sometimes went without sleep). Since Frank himself had revealed the fact that he and Genie were expecting a baby when they got married in an earlier book that was no surprise either. I think that it was a bit of a relief to me that all the principles in What is a Family and Hidden Art were not lived out perfectly by the Schaeffer's either. I am reminded that Dr. Schaeffer once said that if you look for perfection or nothing you'll get nothing. Even the Catholic Church doesn't demand perfection in the people who are canonized as saints – heroic virtue is the standard, not perfection.

I still find some of what the Schaeffers taught valid and helpful, even though I long ago discovered some of the flaws in Francis Schaeffer's thinking (his historical analysis was sadly lacking in part because of his anti-Catholic background). What Dr. Schaeffer did for this product of a pietistic church, however, was to assure me that one could be both intelligent and Christian and for that I am grateful.

It is abundantly clear that Frank loves his family (all of them) and that he was able to appreciate the really good things that his parents brought to his life (even while recognizing some of the craziness and inconsistencies). I didn't find his book to be disrespectful to his parents, it seemed in fact that he went out of his way to demonstrate how much better his parents handled a lot of things than the bulk of fundamentalist culture at the same time in history. Had I been the author I might not have revealed what his mother said to his father at the time they discovered that Genie was pregnant because that didn't really seem necessary, but apart from that I thought that the book was pretty balanced and largely dealt with Frank's own journey as rocky and wild as that journey was at times.

I've followed Frank's later career with interest and have found the books he wrote after A Time For Anger not only better written, but actually a lot more interesting. I think he's being totally honest when he admits that he isn't the same person now as when he wrote that book, and I suspect that ten years from now he'll be somewhat different yet. I suspect he will always be a passionate writer and speaker, and that he will continue to make a lot of people uncomfortable. I don't always agree with him (I'm also a former evangelical, but I became Roman Catholic, not Orthodox), I frequently find myself arguing with him as I read, but I always find him an interesting, passionate writer who tells a good story.

The harsh reviews of some people in the evangelical community make me question whether they actually read the book. I know that there is a tendency to put people on pedestals and want to keep them there, but frankly that lack of honesty is what gets Christians laughed at in other circles. If we acknowledge that we are not perfect, that we are struggling along the way as well, it makes us a whole lot more approachable by other people who are struggling.

Frank actually cleared up some misconceptions that some people had about the Schaeffer's theology. While some of their followers (not just Ran Macaulay) were ardent Calvinists Schaeffer himself was not (which I always suspected). While some of the people in the religious right were enamored with Rushdoony Schaeffer thought he was a nut. While some of the people I know who were students of Schaeffer and spent time at L'Abri have become more pietistic and more rigidly Calvinist as they've gotten older, the Schaeffer's themselves seemed to have gotten less pietistic and less Calvinist as time went on.

I loved the chapter about Jane Stuart Smith and Betty Carlson. I have enjoyed their books (particularly Betty's) and that chapter really brought them to life. It's clear that he is really thankful for what they added to his life as well.

I suspect that in any family one can find some degree of disfunction. The Schaeffer's "craziness" was no crazier than the craziness of a lot of the fundamentalists and Pentecostals I grew up with. There were a lot of overly pious mothers and a lot of fathers with tempers. But those same people could be incredibly generous and incredible faithful to their families. I like to think that I learned some lessons about what not to do as well as what to do, but I suspect that my own children, like Frank's, can pick apart my flaws as well. As Frank points out very clearly, however, his parents were not charlatans, they were not seeking to make money off their ministry. They were flawed human beings, but they were genuinely compassionate and caring ones and that is the portrait that Frank paints of them. Were his sisters to write the story the emphasis would be different (Debby Middleman talked about her great respect for her father as a thinker), but none of them seems to find the portrait a dishonest one.

I'm sorry that some people in the evangelical community have reacted so negatively to this book. Perhaps it's because they don't want to hear the truth about their idols or perhaps it's because they don't want to hear the truth about the tendency of some Christian leaders as they attempted to move into the political world to play by the world's rules rather than by Christian principles. It seems to me that the folly of that approach has become abundantly clear after the past 8 years. I don't share Frank's more nuanced approach relative to abortion, but I do share much of his disgust for what the religious right has wrought by marrying themselves to the Republican party. Frank's father used to say we should be co-belligerents not allies. Frank may have pulled his father into the role of ally towards the end of his life and to the extent he did it was clearly a mistake. Unfortunately, it is a mistake that far too many in the evangelical community are perpetuating. Unfortunately some of the younger generation are making the equally poor mistake of allying themselves wholeheartedly with the Democrats instead of recognizing that the Church is neither right or left. In some areas (like abortion) the classical Christian position may seem right wing, in other areas (like concern for the poor and holding to the just war theories) the classical Christian position may seem left wing. Dr. Schaeffer's earlier teaching made clear the dangers of allying with either left or right. It's sad not only that he got allied with the right towards the end of his life, but that many of the people who read him don't read that earlier admonition.

I find it amazing that someone who grew up with such an unorganized education, with dyslexia to boot has managed to become such an accomplished author. Clearly there were a lot of people in his life, not just his parents and teachers, who brought incredible richness to it and thankfully he has found the authorial voice to communicate some of that richness to his readers. He's a brave man to reveal the skeletons in his own closet. He must be married to a remarkable woman because she encouraged him to do so. I look forward to the next novel. Maybe this one could be a satirical look at Hollywood reminiscent of Evelyn Waugh or perhaps a satirical look at the elite private school set of a rich New England suburb?

Nancy C. Strosnider February 13th, 2009

The book gave an interesting description of Frank and Edith Schaeffer. As a result, I would like to have spent some time at L'Abri when they were in their prime.
However, I'd have better appreciated his personal biography if he hadn't written about the many times he spent in his perversions. It was neither needful nor uplifting. All we like sheep have gone astray, but to have it published only two years ago, he should have long ago stopped bringing it up and matured beyond such
publication /conversation.

Chris Anderson February 11th, 2010

Liz, (note from 10-20-2008)

You will probably never read this but I think I have part of the reason Frank is such a good writer even though he got such "an unorganized education." In both CRAZY FOR GOD and in THE PORTIFINO TRILOGY the one thing we constantly see is the mother reading to the children. Edith Schaeffer might not come off well in many areas but as someone who is "simul justus et peccator" she certainly raised this child to hear good language.

I happen to love THE SHACK but it is clear that Frank hears the English language in a way that Young does not and Frank's own honest accounts do give honor to Edith Schaeffer.

BTW I thought your extended note was right on target.