shelly September 3rd, 2008

Not too shabby, I must say. *nods*

George M September 4th, 2008

I was hoping Joel would throw in one of his classic 'zingers' during his time on stage at the DNC, as he usually does during his sermons. A great ploy to shock us all back on the message and one that he uses at least as well as Steve. But such was not the case, at least not until the end when he graciously invited all people to close his prayer by following the tenants of their own religions and faiths. Then, and only then, did he offer up the ultimate 'zinger' with these words: "In Jesus name, Amen!"

Obed September 4th, 2008

Not bad, especially the first part. The middle part got understandably political. The end made me giggle.

I tell ya, I wouldn't want to be slated to do a benediction or invocation in this kind of context. It'd be too tempting to use the prayer as an excuse to do some sermonizing. When I graduated from high school, I did the benediction at our graduation ceremony, and to fight that, I just adopted the "Aaronic benediction" from Numbers. That, and I didn't really know what to say!

Arte September 9th, 2008

Hi Steve – I'm a monthly supporter of Key LIfe and have been going to Northland for more than 10 years – and I'm not comforable with Joel's prayer or for that matter Joel being at this political event – I don't think you encourage people to pray to their own god – Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life – let's stop being overly clever and stick to the basics – I might add I'm extremely uncomfortable with Joel cozying up to the party of abortion and gay rights – I've heard his reasons – but sorry I still don't get it -

lisa September 21st, 2008

I agree with Arte. I have attended Northland for more than 16 years, and I am very saddened over the liberal agenda that has crept in over the past couple of years. I will be looking for a new church home. It is very disappointing indeed.

George September 22nd, 2008

I applaud Joel for having the guts to be there and for not having a condemning attitude towards those who do not believe exactly as we do.

Funny, Jesus was accused of associating with all the wrong people too. But those "wrong" people were attracted to Jesus because he was not condemning. Neither was he condoning of there relationship to God. He loved them and told them what it took to be saved.

Arte, I applaud your commitment to the one True God, Jesus Christ. But, Christians have such a hateful, condemning image in the eyes of the world and that is NOT glorifying to God. Remember John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

The challenge we face as Christians is showing God's love to the world without compromising God's justice. Jesus said that John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Loving one another means showing you care even when you disagree. Not condoning but not condemning either.

Lisa, I too go to Northland and have not seen where the gospel of Christ is compromised in any way. If anything, Joel encourages us to take God's mandates seriously.

One of those mandates is go into the world and take Gods love. Mark 16:15 "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." It doesn't say go into the world and uphold legalistic purity. Nor does it say for the world to go to church.

Another mandate is to be a good steward of what God has given us. Our money, our families, our world. People may call it liberal to care for others, (and I am a conservative), but Jesus was liberal in his love and acceptance WITHOUT compromising God's standards.

We will not see any significant movement of God's Spirit until Christians give up their elitist attitude, their "better than thou" approach to the world and admit their humanity and how God saved them.

We are all sinners in need to God's love and forgiveness.

murungu October 4th, 2008

How many people actually left the church over Joel's pandering to the party of abortion,pornography etc.?

I know a few people who attend this church( and other similar churches). They seem to have one thing in common. they are saved, but Jesus is not going to interfere with the rest of their lives, e.g. types of movies, TV shows, general lack of interest in anything beyond John 3:16.

We are in the Laodacian age.

GeorgiaAna October 5th, 2008

Dr. Hunter, like anyone else, has a much right to serve as a political pawn as anyone. If notoriety is the aim, there are always plenty of opportunities, aren't there?

I do not think that he models the moral and ethical leadership that should be a minimum of any Christian leader. On his vanity web site (wrongly named "Completely Pro Life") Dr. Hunter states (quoting from his new-conservative book):

"On the other hand, there is no question as to the magnitude of the suffering that would result for both parents and children if abortion of the misbegotten were not an option."

To advocate, even with a half-hearted lament, the "abortion of the misbegotten" — heck, to even have the AUDACITY to use such a HOPEless word as "misbegotten" in reference to any life — aligns Dr. Hunter with a group of folks who throughout history have used that shameful word to postulate the destruction of whole groups of people. Read the works of Stalin and Hitler and Sanger and other eugenics proponents, and you'll find references to the misbegotten sprinkled liberally throughout their defenses of systems that grant the right to life to only a certain acceptable sort of person.

Compared to the ONLY Begotten, we are all the 'misbegotten,' a name I proudly hold onto for myself as I work to defend the rights of the 'misbegotten,' born to the 'misbegotten,' in my professional role as a pro life activist every day.

I've heard Steve say in public that he'll never stop saying "abortion is wrong, period." Dr. Hunter (again, reference his quotes on his site) says no church or church leader can make that statement and be in the right.

There is a time coming when each of us will have to decide where we stand on these issues, and some of us, as in times past over issues such as slavery and the Holocaust, will choose to fall where we stand. Dr. Hunter will not be my model, my pastor, my moral guide, nor my spiritual instructor in such a time.

– A happy 'misbegotten' servant of HIM as I work among the 'misbegotten' to prevent the destruction of HIS gift of life

(COROLLARY THOUGHt: Can any Christian in his/her right — or left — mind entertain a 'doctrine of the misbegotten?")

joe October 5th, 2008

Sorry but this was the platform for JESUS to be Lifted up and proclaimed. Mark 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angles. I have met you and spent time talking with you, but you MISSED IT! You may love and respect Dr. Hunter and I do, but this can not be accepted. I pray all those who are trying to support him in this action need to read the Word and that is the only thing that we stand up for and when anyone comes against the word, no matter who he or she is, that they be held accountable, and seek God and repent. You may have closed the prayer in Jesus name, but it was washed out with everyone proclaiming whatever they belive, ali, budha etc… and even satan himself. Sorry this was a platform for Jesus to be proclaimed not every other flase God out there. Sorry Joel, You missed it, Still love ya and praying for you.

To All HIS GLORY, In JESUS NAME!

Mike October 6th, 2008

I too am one of the "misbegotten", they just happened to make abortion legal 4 months before I was born.

I just recently moved away from most of the political stuff. The way it apears to me things are going down hill and fast. I am holding fast to Jesus through all of this. When I hear of more pastors supporting such things I think we are closer to demise. I'm not talking the world and all that but at least this country. If the spiritual leaders of the people won't speak truth to power then how do we expect the sheep to do it, they only know what they see and are tought.

Jesus did hang out with sinners, everyone fits into that catagory, but He would find the worst, but He never condoned there behavior, He looked so different from them that they came to Him to repent, He then took that opportunity to show them there sin and instruct them to stop it. There is too much of the "don't judge other people" crap in the mind of "christians" now. We don't judge God judges, He judges us all, all we can to is repeat what He has said.

Praying at the DNC isn't evil. The time should not be taken to "preach" to the "evil" DNC'ers, but at the same time we are to stand firm in the teachings of Scripure tha Jesus is our only God and human life is all made in God's image and precious to Him. I know there are other things too, but those are the two being focused on in the comment thread.

We can hang out with those who disagree, but we should not allow them to rub off on us, we are under great attack, and we are losing because of compromise on our own behalf.

I used to think politics was super important, I have seen lately that no matter who is elected they are not Jesus, we can do our part and vote, but unless it is Jesus running the country, it's not really gonna improve, rather it will go the other way.

murungu October 6th, 2008

Jesus did judge. He told the woman to 'sin no more'.

He is coming back to judge.

I think that pretrib rapture is to save American Christians from having to take a stand. How do you explain this to a Chinese Christian.

Hunter (and osteen and warren) are trying to make Christianity just another way.

Jordan November 9th, 2008

@GeorgiaAna:

You completely misrepresented the quotation from Joel on his website.

1) The quote about the misbegotten is NOT from Joel's book. It's by M. Scott Beck from his book "The Different Drumb." You should be more careful about who you throw under the bus.

2) You also conveniently edited the quote for your own purposes. Beck continues beyond that thought to say, essentially "even if you say it's wrong, people that don't agree with that and who will have to live with the actual 'disaster' a pregnancy will bring will still choose abortion. Therefore it is required that the Christian response is more along the lines of 'Abortion is wrong, but I know you feel it's your only choice. Keep this child (do the right thing) and the Christian community will look after you both.

In other words, there's more to the issue than just "stop abortion." Stopping abortion doesn't fix the problem. Making laws against it won't stop it either. Joel (and Beck apparently) want to ACTUALLY stop abortion – not by passing an arbitrary law so we can say "we won" but to change peoples' hearts and circumstances so that abortion is no longer the perceived "best option."

shirley November 16th, 2008

Doctor Hunter is my pastor and he would never make a decision in any apsect of his life, much less this prayer, without tremendous amounts of praying and listening to God. If only one child is saved through Dr Hunters efforts to work with those who either do not believe or believe differently then it is right, period.

"There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit is the souce of them all. There are different kinds of service, but we serve the same Lord. God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does the work in ALL of us."

abigail November 24th, 2008

I see that this is still ongoing. My family and I have left Northland, too. We left before this happened (about a year and a half ago) and for the reason that the presence of the Holy Spirit is not in Northland. I hope I am wrong for the sake of those left at Northland but I believe that the church grew according to man's effort (Joel's and the talent at Northland) and not of the Holy Spirit. Northland looks too much like the world and caters too much to the world- afraid to be separate. Anyway, I hope I am wrong but the responsibility of the elders and Joel Hunter is too great to dismiss the warnings of the Holy Spirit. Thousands of souls are in their hands- leading or misleading. I will be afraid to face God having misled so many. It seems that when they are questioned, they raise the Grace placard forgetting the obedience and sacrifice to the cross. Confusing, isn't it? And God is not the author of confusion. Joel Hunter confused me so I had to leave.