Erik December 24th, 2008

What a wonderful xmas gift to the world of SBE. Great to hear from you guys!

Tony Heringer December 24th, 2008

Erik,

Merry Christmas my brother! What follows is my take, some I lifted from another post out in cyberspace in another favorite spot of mine http://www.rabbitroom.com. I love these sorts of dialogues as I think there is wide and varied opinion on this topic — likely just in places like America where we fight for our right to party instead of the rights of the poor.

I find this show to be mainly a postmodern conversation. That is "Let's take in anything and try to strain out meaning from it." The whole concept is a big stretch and somewhat offensive to those of us who hold Christmas and the Advent season as sacred.

I'd rather we heed words of Paul in Ephesians 5 to avoid coarse joking and the like. It is incumbent for redeemed people to bring to bear on the artistic community a call to a higher standard in the use of vernacular. If not the Christian community, then who will do it?

Give me 5 films with redemptive themes that I can take my kids to. In fact, if I can't listen to this podcast with my kids in the room (they are teens, so I could, but won't), why would I listen to it? Being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, why would He want to listen to it? If in Christ, we really do have "God with us" during the Christmas season and at all times.

As for films and other art, this sort of work does happen. For example, think of Tolkien first with his book and then with Peter Jackson's films. The book is lauded as one of the top works of the 20th century. That is no accident as I think Tolkein honors God with this book. Not by making leading us by the nose but by putting himself in the work as a Christian artist not an artist trying to make something Christian — big difference.

When it was announced that Jackson would direct, I feared for what he would do to the material considering his work prior to these movies. But, to my pleasant surprise, the film and listening to the commentary that follows showed a reverence for the work from Jackson and the other writers. It think that too is no accident. Jackson bears God's image and as an image bearer, the pull of common grace is just as strong at times as particular or saving grace.

As Christians, we are called to be discerning and be very careful not to take our liberty as license. One thing is for sure, the Bible promises we will reap what we sow. My use of profanity and vulgarity is a natural thing coming out of my ever present enemy – my flesh or sin nature. Here's Paul's take on it, I pray we all take heed of his words to us:

Galatians 6:7-10: "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturewill reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

Now, let the fun begin!

Joe Johnson December 25th, 2008

Tony,

Please tell me you listened to the podcast before you posted this. If you have a problem with the language, that's understandable. But if you think that the films we noted were contrary to redemptive or other valuable ideas, please be specific.
The body count in Jackson's epic is significantly higher than those of these films combined. I understand that some people can accept massive violence but wince at the slightest vulgarity. I know that films can depict torture, strangulation, and stabbings and be godly if they are adaptations of works officially sanctioned by an Evangelical community. Most of the films in this list are ignored because of this arbitrary way of selecting meaningful works. Narnia: good. Harry Potter: evil.
If you would like to note which of these films are outwardly anti-Christian, or anti-redemptive, that would be helpful (I know at least one of them is a significant stretch, but we talked about its value on an earlier episode). If you only are interested in films that you can watch with children, I'm afraid that you may be missing some wonderful works. There are some biblical stories I would not be comfortable reading to my children specifically because of the sheer depravity captured in them. And don't forget, that our St. Paul was a little crass with some of his language. The NIV cleans him up a bit, just like a good television edit of these movies would do.
Thanks for the comments, and I hope you do have a wonderful Christmas.
Joe.

JadeInTheATL December 26th, 2008

What a pleasant surprise! Kind of like finding an unexpected Christmas gift. Thanks a ton. I only wish my favorite film, The Fisher King, had a Christmas tie-in.

I was a little surprised there was not even an honorable mention of The Ref.

Jade

George McFly December 29th, 2008

Back To The Future, anyone?

Obed December 30th, 2008

Heh, it seems everyone's favorite non-traditional Christmas movie is "Die Hard." "A Christmas Story" has practically BECOME a traditional Christmas movie, so I'm not even s ure it should count anymore!

I've missed Watching Theology. I'm really sorry that the "5th Element" episode was lost to hd death. That's one of my favorite movies and I was looking forward to hearing your takes on it it.

Doug December 31st, 2008

I've missed Watching Theology!

I did not see this in my RSS feed till after Christmas, but have already loaded it onto my mp3 player and look forward to listening on my way home tonight.

May you all have a blessed new year!

Tony Heringer December 31st, 2008

Joe,

I listened and my post was my reaction to listening. Die Hard and Lethal Weapon? Are you serious? These films are mind candy. Yes, I have seen them both – more than once. Don't recall much in the way of redemption in either – but there are lots of explosions and swearing. As those guys on SCTV used to say "They blowed up real good!"

As for the violence, well, that is real in all the films you and I mentioned. I guess I'm looking for common ground here. How about "Finding Never Land?" My point is there are ways to portray adult topics without resorting to juvenile and crass dialogue and needless brutality.

As to the other points you raised, here are my thoughts.

Yes, Paul was an earthy fellow (like the rest of us), but when speaking clearly in Ephesians 5, he exhorts us to avoid coarseness. Even the coarseness of Paul is overrated. Pastors love to talk about Paul's use of a certain word in Philippians 3:8. Yes, it could have meant dung or a euphemism more graphic than that, but is that our sin nature talking or reality? It could also mean the leftovers from Christian meals – love feasts. In context, I've been led to think that the latter is the meaning Paul was after, but I could be wrong. The use of dung or worse would get the point across, but the letter is not littered with this word nor are any of the other 66 books of the Bible. However, as you point out, they are plenty graphic at points and there are some points of great violence. But we are reading that, not seeing it over and over and over.

I wouldn't and didn't dismiss Harry Potter. I'm currently reading that book series. I embarked on this reading odyssey after hearing Connie Neal on one of Steve's shows. Plus my son read and enjoyed the series, so it is a way for him and me to connect. The kids swear in the books and the movies, but they are kids. I don't recall the adults doing so. But, that's just a side point, eh?

I believe the explicit sex, violence and language in modern film are all signs of poor imagination. The better films made, in general, refrain or even restrain the use of all these elements. Just like in reading, there are things that should be left to the imagination. I believe that is as respectful to the viewer as it is to the reader.

There are films, such as Good Will Hunting, Brave Heart, etc. that I've seen, enjoyed and was moved by. So, I'm not living in a bubble here, I'd just like to see Christians challenge the makers of film (and other art) to tackling these thorny subjects without assaulting our hearts and minds with any of this junk that gets poured into these films garnering them R or PG-13 (R lite) ratings.

That's pretty much my feeling on the matter. I certainly can be wrong here. I am quite certain your opinion is not in agreement with mine. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Happy New Year!

Mark January 3rd, 2009

I second the Fisher King on my Christmas wishlist. I appreciate that this is on here as I love movies. I also appreciate finding things in movies that spark my imagination in how they can reference the story behind all the other stories, especially especially when it is done unintentionally. I think Tolkien said to Lewis that the reason fairytales and myth capture our imagination so much is that they all allude to the story of the redemption of humanity, except that story is real. Anyway, thanks and keep doing these!