Hurk January 28th, 2009

Interesting…not sure if I like this. I guess I see this as much more of a political piece than an ad aimed at changing the hearts and minds of mothers. I'm not too sure this would change someone's mind about the issue, even if it is thought provoking. Who better to put this out than the Catholics though? They are very consistent in their pro life stance across the board.

Fran January 28th, 2009

It makes a legitimate point against those who argue that abortion "saves" children from a rough life, but I don't think it will change minds.

I think Obama will find it divisive and hurtful, so I wouldn't be surprised if he asks them to remove the video. I think it would certainly be hurtful to women who made that decision thinking they had no other choice. His mother was an anthropologist, hardly an uneducated Welfare mom, and she had a lot of family support.

Erik January 28th, 2009

I just heard from a lady who said that this video actually makes a good argument for abortion and that she's now reconsidering her stance on the issue. Needless to say, she's not a big fan of our new President.

Tony Heringer January 28th, 2009

Erik,

The lady who called you was surely making a very bad joke–even those who are for abortion wouldn't be that casual in their stance.

I watched this and then went out for a quick errand. I thought about this while I was away. It certainly would be divisive because there are strong feelings on this issue and, as Hurk noted, its political. But, it could give some pause and attempts to knock down the straw man of the "unwanted child" i.e. "Why would I bring a child into this mess?" To Fran's point, The Church needs to be that resource for women who feel they have no other choice.

It is sad in a day an age when our culture claims science as a major household god and yet fails to acknowledge that the sonogram shows us personhood. These individuals are denied their most basic civil rights – the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In the context of the U.S. that evidence should be enough to save them. In the context of our faith, we can at least take the stand of Mother Theresa (who confronted President Clinton on this issue):

"Please don't kill the child. I want the child. Please give me the child. I am willing to accept any child who would be aborted, and to give that child to a married couple who will love the child, and be loved by the child. From our children's home in Calcutta alone, we have saved over 3,000 children from abortions. These children have brought such love and joy to their adopting parents, and have grown up so full of love and joy!".

This is happening in many churches and other organizations across the land. Praise God for that and one day He will settle this issue once and for all. Like the boss in C.S. Lewis' novel "The Great Divorce" I wouldn't want to be demanding my rights on that day.

By the way, I've connected with Benyamin Cohen and I'm trying to get him to come to Perimeter when Steve is in town in March. I'll let you all know if that works out.

Thanks for all you guys are doing. Keep up the great work!

sally apokedak January 28th, 2009

Is this a trick question? You're concerned about being divisive?

Yikes.

I came by way of Steve Brown's blog, I discovered him on Sunday when a lady I go to church with told me I should listen to him.

so I've not been here long. But from what I've read from you, Erik I would have never guessed you didn't like being divisive.

Bill Farrar January 28th, 2009

I think it's a great piece of work. It makes several good points that will be lost on most viewers. I'm thinking of publishing a new bumper strip, "GIVE THE CHILD THE CHOICE."
I know, I know. I don't think the spot will change many minds but perhaps a few folks will at least start to think about the issue.

Prodigal Daughter January 28th, 2009

I can see where it might get pro-choicers to think, but I don't think it will have much impact upon a woman in a crisis situation. There's so much that goes into a crisis pregnancy situation. The best help for a woman in that situation is for Christians to stand up and offer help and support while speaking truth and showing love. Not that it will always win her over to the side of life, but if we are not there, she'll most certainly be won over to the side of death.

Tracy January 28th, 2009

As a long time listener to Etc., I really don't think Erik likes being divisive. I could be wrong–he might have done quite a snow job. He likes to kid on the air, and he's not afraid to put himself out there or discuss difficult issues.

Regarding the video, I think it's thought provoking, but I can see where some people (on either side) could view it from an overly political standpoint. But, to anyone that can be somewhat objective, it's a powerful message. The same general message applies to anyone that's facing adversity: great things can be on the other side of that adversity.

Tony hit on a point that greatly aggravates me. The pro-abortion crowd likes to accuse the pro-lifers of injecting religion inappropriately. However, they're the ones that want to ignore the science. Scientifically from the point of conception, the fetus/baby/conceptus/embryo (whichever term you prefer) is alive and a genetically distinct person from the mother. So, purposely extinguishing that life is murder. The only place my religion comes into it is in declaring that murder is wrong. Unless they want to legalize murder, it seems to me they're being intellectually dishonest.

Ok, sorry if I'm preaching to the choir.

I hope Prodigal Daughter is wrong about it not having much of an impact in a crisis situation, but I'm afraid she's right. I'm almost certain she's right about the rest–except maybe the last bit about being won over to the side of death. Well, she's probably right about that, too.

Erik January 29th, 2009

Hey Sally,

I am concerned about divisiveness…especially when I'm guilty of it.

As a Christian, I sincerely want to be a part of answering Jesus' prayer that we all may be one as He and the Father are one.

As an American, I'm inspired by the motto "E Pluribus Unum."

I produce a talk show that demonstrates how people with different viewpoints and beliefs can find common ground when we're grounded in the loving sovereignty of God.

I'm saddened that both sides on the abortion issue have reached a stalemate, with an executive order here or a Supreme Court nomination there, but no creative solution that breaks through the rhetoric to change hearts and minds and save innocent lives. Why should Republicans or Democrats make any real progress? They'd loose too much power and money if the abortion issue were off the table.

With all that being said. I can still be divisive. I am part of the problem. My concern should move me to adopt an unwanted baby or support a single mother. Instead, I've opted to selfishly focus on what's best for my three children, abandoning the others to the wolves.

If someone who is as concerned as I am does nothing more than talk and post a video…may God have mercy (and I have it on good authority that He does).

Erik January 29th, 2009

By the way, if anyone wants to question the authority I mentioned in my previous post, I'll be glad to let you borrow my Magic 8-Ball.

Marcia January 29th, 2009

Well, isn't it special that the baby turned out to be President Obama.

As a NICU nurse, I see a whole lot of much less happy endings. I wrote a somewhat related blog post a while back, and wonder if anyone has any explanation for my thoughts.

As I no longer publish the blog, I'm going to cut and paste:

The Natives Were Restless

As is my faith. Something about spending the past three nights trying to console drug-addicted babies who were, in fact, inconsolable has caused me to question some key verses of the Good Book.

Like Jeremiah 1:5 –

"5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;"

Says the screaming baby, "Really? So You watched while my mom snorted coke and smoked both pot and cigarettes, knowing that the nervous system You were creating was already addicted to those things and that I would go through a brutal withdrawal after being born? Hey, thanks!"

From Jeremiah 29:

"11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Baby, again, "Wow. So my being raised in an abusive home is part of your plan? Cool. And then when I spend my brief adult life as a criminal before dying in jail, or being shot in a robbery or, perhaps, gang-related incident, this is all in order to prosper me? Who knew?"

Don't start with me on the whole God allows suffering because blah blah blah. Or that sickness is part of the fall.

Couldn't an omnipotent God have designed a nervous system for a baby that didn't involve all of this? Better still, could He not have designed a human brain that could withstand addiction? And if every human life is sacred, what of these brief miserable lives?

I don't get it.

Marcia January 29th, 2009

P.S. I realize that the above is somewhat off-topic, but the idea promoted in the video–that God has a magnificent plan for every baby–makes my skin crawl. And I'll wear my divisive hat with pride.

Kenneth Muratore January 29th, 2009

Those of us who have beleived on Jesus, have been born again, are not called to make a Utopian society but to hold the truth in all righteousness while proclaiming the good news. It is a matter of standing for the truth. Abortion is murder. The consequences of sin are horrible. Our sin nor the sin of others does not negate God's intent. For he Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Gal 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The Lord will get rid of sin and it's consequences in His time.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

May we grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.

Fran January 29th, 2009

Marcia, I'm not going to flame you for that. You've seen the ugliness that some babies face from the moment they're born, and your compassion, your time of suffering with them, moves you to anger for the things you imagine they have yet to suffer.

You don't KNOW that their future is hopeless, though, and I think in their own overly-simplified way the Catholics were trying to point out that maybe we should hope they have a brighter future than their circumstances of birth might seem to predict. What would your other option be? To kill them before birth, so they won't have to suffer life?

None of us can make things completely perfect for them (certainly not by railing at God for placing them with an awful mom), so we only do what we can. You choose to comfort them when they're hurting. Maybe another family will take them in someday. Maybe a teacher, a neighbor, or pastor or church will provide them with food, clothing, shelter, teaching, opportunities, and the belief that they were fearfully and wonderfully made and God loves them. Maybe someone will help them understand that their value isn't measured only by the family they were born into. You have to hope and pray that other people who cross their path will offer them some of the same hope and comfort that you gave to them in their first hours on this earth.

I haven't suffered as you have for them, but I still believe hope exists for them, and may God make me an encouragement to them as you have been.

Adam January 29th, 2009

Marcia,

If we're all here simply by chance…in a world devoid of an omnipotent creator, the terms bad , evil, wrong, would ring hollow….carry little meaning. The fact that what you witness bothers you…the fact that every fiber of your soul wants to scream out that what these kids are going through is wrong, wrong, wrong, should tell you something. Maybe I'm mis-reading your post, but is your contention that perhaps God really isn't 'there' beacuse of the evident amount of suffering observed?

Marcia January 30th, 2009

Sadly, Erik, having been doing this for 22 years, I have seen the outcome many times.

And no, I don't believe abortion is the answer. I don't HAVE the answers.

And Kenneth, you look a screaming, withdrawing baby in the eye and repeat what you just said to him. I'm sure it will make both of you much more secure in your faith.

Erik January 30th, 2009

Sadly, Erik…

You talking to me?

Fran January 30th, 2009

Well, you're obviously stuck on making sweeping generalizations that they're all doomed, and God is cruel.

I can understand getting depressed if you think like that, but maybe you should talk to a pastor or counselor about it.

Tony Heringer January 30th, 2009

Marcia,

Thank you for your candor. Please allow me to offer my opinions on the issues you raise here — good ones to raise! This is just my opinion, I hope it helps, if not, know that I hurt with you for these little ones.

Michael Card has a song called "Could It Be" that deals with our questions and the Answer — i.e. Jesus. The lead teacher at Perimeter, Randy Pope, has a saying "God allows what He hates to accomplish what He loves." Without the work and Person of Jesus Christ all such sayings and generalizations are trite and cruel.

Without the Incarnation, God is a despot plain and simple. But, with Jesus, the whole story is turned on its ear. Paul gives us a shing hope to cling to in a simple song in Phil 2 showing the earthly humilation of Christ and after His death and resurrection the exaltation of Christ. But before that, God gave us the Psalms — which are full of laments and the book of Job to give us expression to our pains. Pains which Jesus never shies away from for He reminds us "In this world you will have trouble, but take, for I have overcome the world."

The verses you site are a misrepresentation of the Gospel. When I hear people say "God's got a wonderful plan for your life." I remind them that isn't God's plan. His plan is to redeem you for the next life, eternal life. James calls this life a mist and in comparision to eternity, that is what it is.

I can assure you that when Joeseph was sitting in that stinking prison, or when Jonah was sitting in the belly of the great fish, or when Paul was being pelted with rocks and garbage, they were not thinking "this is a great plan!" They were likely thinking like the Psalmist and like you and I would think "How long, O Lord? Will You forget me forever?"

God doesn't expect us to be happy, but He does expect us to be holy – and that has nothing to do with being good. It has everything to do with being His for holiness is being set apart for a purpose. That purpose is to act as His hands and feet in a world that is in sore need of redemption. Jesus is coming back, so in the words of Sam and Dave "Hold on!"

This is a war (see Ephesians 6) and war is hell. Take comfort in the fact that in Christ, we are more than conquerors and that God has placed you where you are — with these little ones to offer some measure of comfort. Don't give in to despair. Keep fighting the good fight.

Amy January 30th, 2009

In the story of Jonathon attacking the Philistines with his armor bearer. (1 Samuel 13 and 14) He decides to go attack (without weapons) and says 1 Samuel 14:6 "Perhaps the LORD will act in our behalf." Keyword…Perhaps. We don't know what the Lord will do. We are required to have faith. (By the way Jonathon died later another time he said "perhaps"). So we have to exercise our faith and maybe say about these babies…perhaps the Lord will act on their behalf. For me it's very difficult to know their struggle and their possible future and still have faith. Since God is sovereign, we have to have faith. In the sermon I heard on Sunday, our missionary speaker said God is sovereign to save and sovereign not to save. He's the King it's His world, He is sovereignty free to act as He wants to in His world.

If anyone wants to listen…
http://www.northridgecma.faithhighway.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FaithHighway/10000/4000/753NO/audio

Click on "Missionary Message"

Amy

Fran January 30th, 2009

Excellent points, Amy.

And, Marcia, I know some people think it's weird to believe in actual evil spirits at work on the earth, but I do. I think evil actually enjoys the cries of those babies, AND if they can then use that to kill the joy and steal the hope of a believer, it's a bonus.

Don't let them win. Don't even look too long at them, but : "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT GROW WEARY AND LOSE HEART." Hebrews 12:2-3

Tony Heringer January 30th, 2009

Amy,

Excellent message and spot on to the topic here. "Perhaps!" – that was a great section of this message. I also loved his charge to us to discover God's call on our lives — not that its something mystical or a feelng but an act of obedience in light of all that God has done for us — especially those us fortunate enough to live here in America — including those poor little babies because here they have a neonatal intensive care unit and caring nurses like Marcia. Outside our borders, that is not always the case especially in developing or "third world" countries.

Another website I enjoy posted a similar topic related to Tim Keller's new book "The Prodigal God". That sounds like the title of a book Steve Brown would write.

Here's the link to that post which contains more links to Tim (who was a recent guest on Steve Brown, ETC.) http://www.rabbitroom.com/?p=1332

Marcia January 30th, 2009

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I was hesitant to read the comments posted after mine, because when I've shared these thoughts before–which I believe any thinking person in my position would have–I have received trite, pat responses and sometimes even hostile ones. How dare I question God, etc.

So it is kind of you to have listened and responded thoughtfully. One thing I know I believe is that God gave us brains expecting us to use them. : )

Unfortunately, your thoughts don't exactly solve things in the way I would like, but that's not your fault. I want Christianity explained and tied up in a neat little package. Some folks love the mystery of it all, but I am not one of them.

Marcia January 30th, 2009

Sadly, Erik,

Oops–that was to Fran. : )

Lynn January 30th, 2009

Marcia,

I wish there was something to be said that would make everything make sense, but unfortunately, I don't think in this life you'll ever the get a concrete answer as to why bad things happen to innocent people/babies ( at least one we can understand). That being said, I want to thank you for the work that you do, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have to deal with those types of situations on a daily basis. I believe the comfort that you try to provide those little babies is Christ working through you and though at times it may seem hopeless, I believe you are doing the Lord's work, so know your efforts are appreciated. The work that you do is inspiration about sacrifice, helping others, and loving one another.

Kenneth Muratore January 30th, 2009

Marcia,

I have never suffered to the extent of those babies you refer to, nor have I been in a position to be a comfort to them. My struggles with receiving abuse as a young boy starting at the age of five are minor in comparison. When I think of what happened to me, I think someone should die for it. It took God the Father close to 20 years of my life after meeting His Son, to get it through my head, that he agreed with me. All that time I was so angry and bitter and in my heart I called him and unjust God. Then God the Father showed me that he did kill someone, but not just for my sin, but he killed someone for the sins committed against me. The Father has shown me that just as much hatred I had towards the injustice I received when I was a boy, he had infinity more and he poured out his wrath on His only unique Son Jesus for the sins I received. I believe as much hatred and bitterness you feel about this injustice God the Father feels too, and he poured out his wrath upon his Son Jesus. When He looks down and sees the injustice, the only thing keeping Him from completely destroying all of humanity is His Son, standing next to him, with those nail pierced hands. Those who do not repent and turn to Christ will one day feel the fury of a just God when they burn in the Lake of Fire.

Fran January 30th, 2009

Marcia, I'm glad you feel safe to speak your mind here. I have to admit your blog post above was definitely an in-your-face challenge and my first response was defensiveness, but God gave me and others here the grace to understand how you feel and why—because we've been there.

When I hear a news story of the horrors that some people can inflict on others, especially on innocent babies or kids, I weep, and then I become as angry as Kenneth mentioned. Eventually, I remember that God sees everything on this earth, every minute of each day, and things far worse than what I've seen/heard, and I am also amazed that he doesn't destroy us all.

There's not as much mystery to it as you think. It's something we'll never understand, of course, but in its simplest form, I can only act on the knowledge that if God can show so much more mercy and love than I can really imagine, then I can at least try to give back a little of the same to the people I meet each day.

I'll be praying for you along the line of Paul's prayer for the Ephesians:
"…I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge–that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."

Like Kenneth said, we have to begin to grasp how big God's love is. And, once we're filled with that, it's easier to minister to others without losing hope

Marcia January 30th, 2009

Thanks, Fran. I have to tell you that Kenneth's last post depressed the crap out of me.

What is the point of putting it in my face that if these kids don't have anyone bring Christ to them during their miserable lives, they will "feel the fury of a just God when they burn in the Lake of Fire."?

I'm sorry; did I need to hear that again? These are babies.

As I mentioned, I've been at this long enough to see that some of the ones I took care of didn't live far into adulthood. What I really need to hear is that they are burning in hell right now. Yeah, that is so helpful to my faltering faith.

Kenneth Muratore January 30th, 2009

Marcia,

The Father does grieve, judgment is his strange work, it is the heart of the Father that no one perish. It is the love of Christ that compels us.

Listen to what David said after the lose of his first born son by Bathsheba – 2Sa 12:22 "And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?" 2Sa 12:23 "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David was confident he would see this young child again.

I do not know when the age of accountability is for an individual. The scriptures teach us to raise our children in the fear of the Lord with understanding, There is no set time to begin teaching our children the things of God, it is a continual process.

The Father will do what is just and He will do what is right Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Fran January 30th, 2009

I know that hurts. I like to remember the story of Lazarus–not the one who rose again, but the one who lay his whole life in agony at the rich man's gates. The bible says to the rich man, "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony."

Jesus said "the first shall be last, and the last shall be first", so I believe those who suffer short or painful lives here on earth will be comforted in Heaven like Lazarus was. I believe that God receives to Himself those that recognized God as much as they were able on earth, and His heart is tender toward those who suffered here. If someone believes otherwise, then they have written off the severely mentally incapacitated or the babies that lived a short and painful life.

If Jesus said, "To those whom much is given, much is required" then I have to believe the converse of that is true also–to those whom little is given, little is required.

I tell you again, God's love is a love bigger than we can imagine and bigger than our theological arguments can cover.

Marcia January 30th, 2009

Kenneth and Fran:

Both of your comments touched me. I hate this conflict within me; I know that my life is better and more meaningful when I believe, but the things I see in life do nothing but make me question, question, question.

I very much appreciate that you took the time to answer me in a sincere way. I'm sort of like a prickly porcupine when it comes to online conversations; I've been misread enough that I sometimes approach things offensively. The fact that no one responded in a defensive manner here is not lost on me.

Fran January 30th, 2009

From 2 Corinthians…
"He is our merciful Father and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our suffering, so that we may be able to comfort others in all their suffering, as we ourselves are being comforted by God."

Or, in modern terms, it's part of the circle of life for Christians. Those of us who walked that path, struggled with the same doubts/questions, offer what we learned. You'll do the same, I'm sure.

May the "God of all comfort" embrace you.

Kenneth Muratore January 30th, 2009

Marcia, Fran, those in Christ

Bless the Lord, may he keep us and bless us with all spiritual blessings. May the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, keep our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Psa 34:4 "I sought the LORD, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears."

He will abide faithful.

Thomas January 31st, 2009

Marcia, I can't say that I understand your pain concerning the issue of abortion because I've never walked in your shoes, but I can definitely identify with your feelings of outrage because of injustice. I don't want to get into my story because no one wants to hear a whiner, especially when it's a Latino born into poverty and drug addiction. Most people like me, who wish they were aborted because of their hellish set of circumstances, get really pissed at Christians when they start with the whole just believe and repent cause your going to hell if you don't, and then they skate off, not willing to be with you in some capacity through your discipleship process. Or they look the other way when they see you at Church because there scared your going to ask them for something or maybe because your not as educated or holy looking, charming, good looking etc. I used to see it all the time at my old mega, flossy, evangelical Church and the weak in the flock would get picked off all the time and fall away, because the stronger members were not willing to enter into there pain and neuroses because it was too uncomfortable…. I actually like the video because when I was a kid, the Catholic church on my block was really good about supporting the community in a variety of different ways. So when they decide to shoot a video like this, I take what they say seriously because there a good example of what it means to be a Christian, being incarnational and entering into the sufferings of the disenfranchised and poor. Everyone has a different hermeneutic of course, when it comes to Catholics/abortion, but I don't see it as a political power move. I see an organization with credibility fighting for what they believe. As far as the center of law and policy, I don't know if they have a history as a front company with ties too shady organizations, but it appears after looking at there site that it's a Christian institution looking to affect society for the common good. I could be wrong though.

Marcia January 31st, 2009

Hey Thomas–

I just want to say again I'm not advocating that these babies be aborted; I just sort of took the idea of all lives being sacred and used it to bring up my own thoughts.

I totally get your thoughts about folks going all out with "soul-winning" and then not being willing to back that up. I wish more Christians had some substance to them.

Tony Heringer February 2nd, 2009

Marcia,

Good thoughts. I want to go back to this comment:

"I want Christianity explained and tied up in a neat little package. Some folks love the mystery of it all, but I am not one of them."

I'm with you, but unfortunately, we don't have the option to jettison mystery from this process. It is very much like our own human love relationships, we'd like someone just to spell out what we are supposed to do. I said or did this, therefore, she is to say and/or do this. But love is not like that and we wouldn't want it to be. When are you and I ever loved enough? Do we ever say, okay, that's enough of that loving me? I'd say no, because more often than not our love tanks are sucking fumes. There are a number of reasons for that, but I digress.

I can't fully explain human suffering as I'd have to be God to do so. And like the priest in that classic "Rudy" there are two things I know in all my study of Scripture: "There is a God and I'm not Him." I can pass along a fine article I came across today written by Tim Keller entitled "The Centrality Of The Gospel". http://www.thewonderofthegospel.com/The_Wonder_of_the_Gospel/The_Centrality_of_the_Gospel.html In it, Dr. Keller notes this: "[Christ] suffered not that we might not suffer, but that in our suffering we could become like Him."

At first blush, I don't like that truth, but that is a clear teaching in the Scripture. But if I reflect upon it, I say I love this truth because it means there is no senseless suffering or "God forsaken place" and while I may never know the reasoning behind it, I can trust the character and nature of God that He truly is taking what He hates to accomplish that which loves — our redemption.

Thanks again for sharing your heart. Keep listening to Steve's shows on this site and Key Life and most importantly share these heart concerns with your brothers and sisters in your local church.

Marcia February 3rd, 2009

Thank you, Tony. I'll read the article; I like Dr. Keller.

For some reason, people in my church seem to avoid engaging me in conversation……

Mark February 3rd, 2009

Great discussion folks. Appreciate Marcia's honesty, if as christians we don't ask those questions, I would tend to think something is wrong. I too want it all tied up neat in something I can get my mind around, and Keller (him again?) made a cool little analogy to understand faith and our doubts and fears and questions -
http://gratiafied.blogspot.com/2009/01/doubt-disappointment-and-flowing-river.html

Tony Heringer February 3rd, 2009

Marcia,

You are welcome. If you have folks at church avoiding conversation about this topic or avoiding you, then I'd advise you to ask them directly why that is the case. If that doesn't work or is too akward, then I'd take this issue to your pastor. It is important that brothers and sisters are in unity and I know its hard to come by at times.

Given your line of work, you need some flesh and blood sisters in Christ to come around you for support, encouragment and prayer. Like I noted above, If you are having trouble connecting, check with your pastor to see if he can provide some guidance on how to best approach this matter. Community like all of life is messy, but the benefits of godly coomunity far outweigh the cost.

Mark,

Thanks for the link to your blog. That is a great post!