Bruce Szwast January 22nd, 2011

Lately every Saturday I find myself looking back at my week and examining how the previous week fits in the 'grand scheme of things'. This week was a pretty good one. At work I had a few issues with software that I had written a few years ago. I had about a dozen delivery truck drivers upset with me over something they uncovered or what we might call a 'program bug'.

When everything is going okay, no one notices, but when it breaks, everyone knows your name. A few years ago we had 80 drivers sitting around for a few hours waiting for us to figure out that the problem was a network issue. It was not my fault, but they all knew my name. Hey, maybe that is how God feels sometimes. Of course we create the bugs.

Yesterday during my afternoon of golf I decided to really look at my swing and figure out the slump I have been experiencing. Oh the frustration which leads to a lack of confidence and then a lack of productivity. Somehow I had gotten to a point where my hand position, which was wrong, felt so normal to me.

Early in my practice I decided to radically change my hand position. At first it felt really awkward, but as I took more swings I started to notice the smoother rhythm returning. The ball was going straighter and longer and the divots were more consistent. You know what a duck hook is – every one to your back side has to duck. Oh the importance of getting back to basics.

Earlier yesterday I also signed up for "HULU", the online access to TV and Movies service. I chose this particular service because it seemed to have a lot of older TV shows. You know the ones that may be in black and white or may seem boring to a lot of us. I did find some good oldies, but I had to hack through the new stuff to find something acceptable. I was amazed at the contrast. I can no longer tolerate what is currently on network TV or any cable service today.

And even PBS which I kind of grew up with has also changed dramatically. I will not even mention the 'evolutionary propaganda' or the 'deconstructionist view of history' programs. Deconstruction: "A philosophical movement and theory of literary criticism that questions traditional assumptions about certainty, identity, and truth; asserts that words can only refer to other words; and attempts to demonstrate how statements about any text subvert their own meanings."

The PBS program called the "News Hour (NoParticularReality)" used to be called the "MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour". MacNeil to me was a conservative and Lehrer was a moderate. When MacNeil retired, the program lost a conservative voice, and the program now ranges from moderate to liberal (or progressive). We really do have to be aware of subtle changes that influence our way of thinking.

About Mr. Dodd and I did appreciate how Steve was nice to him. But I do have to question the man's knowledge of science and good Bible fundamentals. He seemed to be coming at this problem from a strictly 'emotional' point of view. Both he and etc really frustrate me with their view that a six day creation theory is dismissed as 'old fashioned', and all we have left is 'where do we fit between evolution and creation'.

Might I suggest (again!) that before you have a follow-up program to this one, that you have a reputable 6-day creation science expert on your program so that we can gauge the rhythm of our swing and see if we are still being productive in the work of God's Kingdom. Ken Hamm of AIG would be my first recommendation. He has a really neat accent and he is well rounded in the creationist point of view.

I double dogleg dare you! Lest your bag be full of bogeys.

Brett Arthur January 23rd, 2011

Oh please, anybody but Ken Ham! Mr. Ham is a glib speaker and gifted wit, but everytime I've heard him speak he belittles opposing viewpoints in a most disrespectful way. He seems far more interested in winning arguments and making other people look foolish than in an honest conversation. He is the antithesis of everything Michael Dowd was saying about talking rather than screaming at each other. I would have to say that Mr. Dowd's viewpoints are a bit "out there" relative to orthodoxy & what I think God is saying to this generation, but I can still embrace him as a brother in Christ, even if that's the only thing we agree on. I think Hugh Ross would be a much better choice to have on to balance some of Michael's views.

JohnB5200 January 23rd, 2011

I cannot believe how full of nonsense this show was. Did anyone on your show do any research on Michael Dowd? I understand not reading his book, but there is Wikipedia. Aside from his extraordinarily weak and unimpressive credentials (neither a scientist nor a theologian,) his wiki reveals that he is an adherent of religious naturalism. This is defined as " an approach to spirituality that is devoid of super-naturalism." Wha…?

Steve, this guy is as "Christian" as John Shelby Spong, but you kept affirming what he said. Evolution is not his biggest problem. He doesn't even believe in the resurrection.

I understand that ETC is mainly a yuckity-yuck show, but please try to do a modicum of research for God's sake (literally.) I thought you were an RTS prof.

Bill January 24th, 2011

I know as much about science as the Old White Guy, but from what I've read, I thought evolution was primarily just hanging on as a western concept. I read a quote one time from a Chinese scientist remarking that in the east they can criticize and question evolutionary science but are labeled as bigots when they question government. The west is exactly the opposite.

I also thought it was odd that the guest sort of insinuated that you really can't understand/overcome sin and live a full Christian life without a belief in evolution. That sounds a bit more like propaganda then science.

I'm certainly not a 24 hour creationist, but evolution just seems like a way to remain credible in today's academia rather than a credible scientific theory. I think its more akin to mythology then actual science. It's sciences only alternative and therefore believed – similar to Greek mythology in ancient past when they couldn't explain things in nature.

And Bruce a grip change will only work as a quick fix. I am almost certain it won't work in a week, check your alignment and ball position.

Bruce Szwast January 25th, 2011

Sorry for misspelling your name Mr. Dowd. I only listened to the program and I did not feel it was necessary to pursue anything written.

Emotion is a good thing, but it has to be tempered with logic and reason, and logic and reason are based on facts.

And the first fact we have to deal with is Genesis 1 about the 'meaningful' created order of all things; and then Genesis 2 where God begins to extrapolate on the purpose of that created order and what He requires of man; and then Genesis 3 where God reveals sin, death, judgment, and redemption; and then Genesis 4 where men begin to rebel; and then Genesis 5 and 6 where God begins to sort out 'who believes what He has said'. And then Genesis 7 and the flood of destruction, a restart, and the rest is history:

God has demonstrated in no uncertain terms His ownership and purpose of His Creation.

My friend 'Larry the Evolutionist' and I go around and around about 'the beginning'. And I do have to 'sort of' admire his faith in something that could not possibly be true. And he calls me unreasoning.

And of course he tells me about the staggering amount of data that they have in support of evolution. But I have to respond that you cannot presuppose enough theory to disprove God.

Larry only strengthens my faith in what is written down in black and white from someone who has the ability to create and sustain something so utterly beautiful and yet so frightening, so amazingly complex and yet so simple, so hopelessly chaotic and yet so much under control, so seemingly timeless and yet so close at hand, so hopefully eternal and yet,,, so doomed for destruction.

Matthew 28 records what some consider Jesus' final instructions:

16. Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20. and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

And maybe this is better: Revelation 22

16. "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17. The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20. He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. 21. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

Ps Brett: I have to agree that Ken Ham is a bit different than some would like to see, but he is a soldier on the front lines of a war against the devil's own version of how we got here. I can look up to a man who defends God's Word down to the individual days, despite constant criticism from those who oppose.

If you go to the AIG Creation Museum, and corner Ken in the hallway like I did, ask him to say basin. That will make him laugh – D. James Kennedy did.

Ps And Bill. Let me enjoy my moment of success with my grip. Hey, I am a streak player, and this could go on for weeks. I will be back at the Bad Dog on Friday. I used to play golf with a preacher who would ask me during my address things like 'how is my weight distribution' – you wouldn't be a man of the cloth would you?

Oh yea, don't put down American Exceptionalism. It is all about faith in the God of the Bible.

Jeff January 25th, 2011

After listening to this broadcast, I think I can agree somewhat with what Michael Dowd is saying. I must say, though, as interesting as this guest was, he scared me a bit when he said he had no resentments, no fears and no secrets. Either he is Jesus, or he is in denial. Just saying.

Zach January 26th, 2011

From these comments…I'm sorry I missed being there for this show!

Greg January 29th, 2011

I have Read Michael Dowd's book "Thank God For Evolution" and have done a lot of study on this subject at the feet of both Hugh Ross and Ken Ham.

I think that there is one GLARING theological problem that was overlooked both in this interview and Dowd's book.

Evolution requires that death pre-exist Adam. Death, via "survival of the fittest", is the very catalyst for evolutionary advancement. If death preceded Adam then our sin never caused death and Christ's atonement through HIS death (and resurrection) is for naught.

Until that simple, but in my opinion very obvious, argument is addressed, I don't see how anyone can consistently believe in a good, loving and all-powerful sovereign God AND believe in evolution.

I'm not questioning salvation of Christian evolutionists, only their logical consistency.

Respectfully.

JohnB5200 January 29th, 2011

Wow, I don't know whether to be honored or to cry that my comments made the "hate mail" segment. I love Steve's ministry, recommend him to everyone and have financially supported Key Life.

So, to have my comments labeled as "venom" is disheartening. I agree that my comments had an "edge" and I apologize for being snarky. But I still think my fundamental concerns are valid.

I know that no one show can be comprehensive, and that ETC is not an apologetic program, but I still think there was a lack of discernment.
It's not like I comment often, in fact, its been years. But I thought this show was so over the top it deserved a comment.

Zach January 29th, 2011

I think you should feel honored JohnB5200! Like you said this show is yuckity-yuk! Hope you could tell it was all in fun.

Bruce Bronson January 30th, 2011

I know it is Early Sunday morning, and I should be in a contemplative mood (introversive). I know that in a little while I should be interactive (extroversive). And at the end of the day look back circumspective'ly (reflective): how did I do and did I please our Lord.

Today we are also wrapping up the Book of Joshua. Did Rahab actually lie to the soldiers, or did she only relate the events as they actually occurred? Did the sun and moon stand still, or did an unformed observer (Jasher and the world) foolishly see it that way?

I wonder how Hugh Ross would explain the effect on the solar system, or even the universe, if the sun and moon did stop? Now Hezekiah's sundial? That may be another story. Have to get through Judges and Samuel first.

Time to move on.

Philippians 4

1. Therefore, my brothers, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, that is how you should stand firm in the Lord, dear friends!

2. I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord.
3. Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

4. Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
5. Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
6. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.

9. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me–put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Erik Guzman January 31st, 2011

JohnB5200,

Howdy. Steve tried to email you using the address you entered here. It bounced back. Use the "Contact Us" link in the menu at the top of this page to send me a good email address and I'll forward Steve's email on to you.

Thanks!

Erik

West III January 31st, 2011

Sorry, critics, but I didn't find this program particuarly controversial.

Ferdinand February 3rd, 2011

I was intrigued by the claims made by your guest Michael Dowd, saying that he affirms evolution and convergence of Science and God. On going to his website http://www.thegreatstory.org/ and doing further research, I see that he clearly refutes the Gospel as a myth and says it is a day and story for ancients which does not have any relevance to us in this modern scientific age.

He claims that original sin is a remnant of our evolutionary past of reptile, lizard, mammal and monkey, He also mentions in his podcast "The New Atheist" that Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens are the prophets of this era pointing out our error and delusional faith in the literally meaning of the Gospels. Unlike Hugh Ross who seeks to explain science in harmony with scripture Mr Dowd presents a view far away from the clear truth of the scriptures.

I hope readers and listeners will do their research and discern the true facts about evolution and not get carried away by the hype presented by Dowd,

Holly February 4th, 2011

It seems like the people who are negative to evolution are excluding it based on belief that the bible is the only evidence and truth. That is a huge assumption. What if you are wrong? What if there is evidence and truth outside of the bible? What if you are wrong?
As a Catholic and Kantian, it seems clear to me that there is truth in the Bible but there is truth in science too. I don't go to my pastor when I have a disease, I want a doctor who knows the evidence from modern science and from biologists who believe in evolutionary theory and understand how viruses mutate and how other animals are like us because we evolved from the same ancestors. Michael is doing a great service in mediating between the science and the theology. And his science is popular but it is based on the best science out there. The fact is that the brain has evolved and is the greatest evidence for evolution of the brain for common ancestors with reptiles and other mammals. I have no problem believing in the TRUTH of scripture and the truth of science. But science is about how the heavens go and not about how to go to heaven. The bible is about salvation and having the views about who God is and what he is capable of is what Genesis is about, it is not about how God created the world. Science describes how the creation occurred but now Who God is and what he is capable of. I stand up and called Steve blessed for having Michael on his program. He has had Hugh Ross on many times so it is good to hear the other side.

Erik Guzman February 5th, 2011

I bet the rest of our listeners are just as discerning and capable of thinking for themselves as you are.

This show is a good example of having the freedom to talk about different ideas without condemning people who don't agree with our particular point of view. When Steve treats a guest with respect and finds the ideas expressed interesting, it doesn't amount to agreement or endorsement.

If God is your Father, we don't have to be your mother.

Ferdinand February 6th, 2011

Appreciate the comments Erik and keep up the great work on the Show.Just visited your Blog site "The Merry Monk" for the first time, nicely done, it is now on my favorites.

On the other hand my intent was to share what "Mr Dowd" did not clearly mention on the show i.e. his "Point of View" on Scripture, He gave the expression that he was attempting to harmonize Science and Scripture.

In his podcast – "Supernatural and Unnatural" he summarizes his core philosophy which he repeats several times , I capture these verbatim in the transcript text below to provide his "Point of View"

======Transcript from podcast== http://www.thegreatstory.org/podcast.htm l===
"Does this sound like Good news to you? – An unnatural king performs unnatural acts sends him unnatural son to the earth in an unnatural way. He born in an unnatural birth lives an unnatural life ,performs unnatural deeds,is killed and unnaturally rises from the dead to redeem humanity from an unnatural curse brought about by an unnaturally talking snake, after 40 days of unnatural appearances he unnaturally zooms of to heaven to return to his unnatural Father, sits on an unnatural throne, and unnaturally judge the living and the dead. And if you believe all this unnatural activity you and your fellow believers spend an unnaturally long time in an unnaturally boring paradise while every on else suffers in an unnatural treacherous hell forever."
===== End of Transcript=========

I have no doubt about Steve's intention but trying to highlight the Mr. Dowd REAL "Point of view" which he was evading to clearly articulate on the show.

Mark Graham February 7th, 2011

I don't know – to me this guy seems to embody the phrase 'good intentions.' I have to think Jesus is jazzed with that. I'm not a scientist…but I know science when I see it sometimes…so I don't buy into the evolution thing. And technology…I can't say for certain but I have doubts about the Holy Spirit having extreme interest in say …the iphone. And the space shuttle is cool…but really it is just rock and sand made into diodes and fuselage and such. A rock tossed into the air. Even there the efforts are cooler than the results. You know some people won't congregate for worship unless you meet them on their prerequisites…women pastors, divorced deacons, tongues., etc…wherever they happen to fall. It makes it hard…but there is always a church that affirms somebody which is helpful. Thinking – if there was a church that affirmed everyone centered around the essentials more could worship in one place. Theology has always been important to me but I don't really know why. I once tried to make it important to other people…now that, in reflection, I do know why These broadcasts are great in that they get you thinking…

Bruce Bronson February 8th, 2011

A dangerous and slippery slope. Why does everyone insist that we have to maintain a position somewhere between Mr. Dowd and Mr. Ross?

Mr. Dowd is pro evolution and I get a feeling most of us don't want to go there. Godly respect for the Incarnation just does not allow for apes or primordial slime. It is nice to be nice, but …

Mr. Ross is pro creation, if not entirely in line with Genesis 1 and literal six day interpretation. I can kind of understand his line of reasoning and objectives, and yet I cannot reconcile his position with an elementary understanding of Genesis 1, which supports an elementary understanding of the rest of the Bible.

Scientific terms and theories are impressive, but do we understand them? Even with Mr. Ham of AIG. Homework and good grades are a good thing, and lead to graduation.

In the meantime, maybe our center of gravity should be between a perfect creation, our rebellion, and Jesus who died for those 'created in the image of God' who want reconciliation with the Perfect Creator.

Mark Graham February 8th, 2011

I read this cool little book once – 'At the End of an Age' – Lukacs. He came at some interesting ideas from an historical perspective. One that struck me was the idea that the only history we really (really) know is human written history. And that there can be no such thing as 'prehistoric' because that is contrary to well…history. Anyhow, this to say that while I disagree with Michael Dowd on his position, I simply can't refute it with 'proof'. Therefore, if I choose to engage 'Mr. Dowd' at all it would have to be in some area of common agreement or experience…normally then something related to the 'person' of Michael Dowd. That is not just being 'appropriate'…it is also logical.