http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/living-faithfully-in-a-pluralistic-world/ This blog needs a description! Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:24:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/living-faithfully-in-a-pluralistic-world/#comment-47010 Pastor John Walsh Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:49:32 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/living-faithfully-in-a-pluralistic-world/#comment-47010 Finally, people are starting to realize GRACE. For those who understand John 14:6 should also understand Ephesians 2:8,9. It's not about us, it's about the Christ and His work for those who believe. An object of Grace is what I am! Finally, people are starting to realize GRACE. For those who understand John 14:6 should also understand Ephesians 2:8,9. It's not about us, it's about the Christ and His work for those who believe. An object of Grace is what I am!

]]> http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/living-faithfully-in-a-pluralistic-world/#comment-46749 mikeM Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:03:36 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/living-faithfully-in-a-pluralistic-world/#comment-46749 I like this article very much. It addresses a problem that has, and continues to vex me (and with a little grace, always will and always should). I'm always trying to discover The Truth, not the answer. "The Truth of Everything" is something far beyond ourselves, or our ability to comprehend. People argueing over it is like the classic Buddist parable of the blind men given a different part of an elephant to touch, and then asked what an elephant is, and argueing over it, naturally insisting on it being only what they were able to discern from the part they were given. I am inclined, if I had my druthers, to ascribe to #3, with a healthy dose (or probably more correctly an unhealthy dose) of #2, and completely reject #1. But, I must recognize and admit that that position has everything to do with my upbringing in, and my disillusionment with, the exclusive, "us vs. them" mentality of the charasmatic, pentecostal, dispensational, fundimentalist, evangelical, politically conservative activism point of view. Unfortunately, growing up as a child in that world (which, for all you older folk if you remember, didn't exist in any form as a formitable institution, much less the monolithic juggernaut it is today, until the hippie "Jesus freak" pentecostal movement started in the 60's) you're painfully aware of the underbelly of the beast. But, that being said, it is my resonsiblity as a thinking human being to throw off my biases and strive to see the world and my faith objectively. Jesus brought 2 seemingly contradictory ideas (especially to "secular" western historically christian sociaties) of the radical grace, love, and forgiveness of God, embodied in the behavior and wonderful works of Himself incarnate.....and Hell. I hate the idea of Hell. But, I must recognize the reality of it to some degree. I think a very good deal of this discussion concerning the exclusiveness, or inclusiveness of salvation is rooted in this: What gets us sent to Hell. Breaking the 10 Comandments? No, because we all do, and if that was the case, there would be no reason for a Messiah to come (because the ONLY reason He came was to atone for sin). So now we're left with the million dollar question. What constitutes salvation through Jesus Christ? Believing that He saved us from the requirement of keeping the 10 Commandments to escape condemnation, and then keeping the 10 Commandments that he saved us from by fullfilling it himself so that we could be free from the judgement of said law by paying the price in human flesh, embodying the symbolism of the sacrificial system in Judaism, as well as the familiar sacrificial system existant in almost every other pre-Christian society? Wouldn't that be like The Fed forgiving a debt that would inevidably grow again, and at last, hold us accountable for the newly accrued debt, and as payment lock us up and throw away the key? Or do we just "lose reward"? And what does that mean anyway? I'll take the lowest position in heaven for the chance to be there, I'll tell you what. And I'll be the least in the kingdom of heaven for the chance to bring in others that are just as least as me. If not not as least than me. I'd rather be less. Then I wouldn't have a big head. So, then the question is, what is the Gospel? The word means "good news". And I say (and I fully expect a heathy degree of error in it.....after all, my experiences change my views daily, yearly) the Gospel is this. Sin is Forgiven!!! Embody that mentality by forgiving all others who wrong you, and disagree with you. "Forgive us our sins AS we forgive those who trespass against us (which is a part of The Lord's Prayer that makes me very uncomfortable). The measure with which you judge is the measure with which you will be judged. The whole Matthew passage about the king who forgave the servant his debt, and then the servant went out and cracked the whip on his debtor. The Gospel is not about a name, or a religion. It's about The Message. Do unto others as you would have done to you. In this is all the law and the prophets. I like this article very much. It addresses a problem that has, and continues to vex me (and with a little grace, always will and always should). I'm always trying to discover The Truth, not the answer. "The Truth of Everything" is something far beyond ourselves, or our ability to comprehend. People argueing over it is like the classic Buddist parable of the blind men given a different part of an elephant to touch, and then asked what an elephant is, and argueing over it, naturally insisting on it being only what they were able to discern from the part they were given. I am inclined, if I had my druthers, to ascribe to #3, with a healthy dose (or probably more correctly an unhealthy dose) of #2, and completely reject #1. But, I must recognize and admit that that position has everything to do with my upbringing in, and my disillusionment with, the exclusive, "us vs. them" mentality of the charasmatic, pentecostal, dispensational, fundimentalist, evangelical, politically conservative activism point of view. Unfortunately, growing up as a child in that world (which, for all you older folk if you remember, didn't exist in any form as a formitable institution, much less the monolithic juggernaut it is today, until the hippie "Jesus freak" pentecostal movement started in the 60's) you're painfully aware of the underbelly of the beast. But, that being said, it is my resonsiblity as a thinking human being to throw off my biases and strive to see the world and my faith objectively. Jesus brought 2 seemingly contradictory ideas (especially to "secular" western historically christian sociaties) of the radical grace, love, and forgiveness of God, embodied in the behavior and wonderful works of Himself incarnate…..and Hell. I hate the idea of Hell. But, I must recognize the reality of it to some degree. I think a very good deal of this discussion concerning the exclusiveness, or inclusiveness of salvation is rooted in this: What gets us sent to Hell. Breaking the 10 Comandments? No, because we all do, and if that was the case, there would be no reason for a Messiah to come (because the ONLY reason He came was to atone for sin). So now we're left with the million dollar question. What constitutes salvation through Jesus Christ? Believing that He saved us from the requirement of keeping the 10 Commandments to escape condemnation, and then keeping the 10 Commandments that he saved us from by fullfilling it himself so that we could be free from the judgement of said law by paying the price in human flesh, embodying the symbolism of the sacrificial system in Judaism, as well as the familiar sacrificial system existant in almost every other pre-Christian society? Wouldn't that be like The Fed forgiving a debt that would inevidably grow again, and at last, hold us accountable for the newly accrued debt, and as payment lock us up and throw away the key? Or do we just "lose reward"? And what does that mean anyway? I'll take the lowest position in heaven for the chance to be there, I'll tell you what. And I'll be the least in the kingdom of heaven for the chance to bring in others that are just as least as me. If not not as least than me. I'd rather be less. Then I wouldn't have a big head. So, then the question is, what is the Gospel? The word means "good news". And I say (and I fully expect a heathy degree of error in it…..after all, my experiences change my views daily, yearly) the Gospel is this. Sin is Forgiven!!! Embody that mentality by forgiving all others who wrong you, and disagree with you. "Forgive us our sins AS we forgive those who trespass against us (which is a part of The Lord's Prayer that makes me very uncomfortable). The measure with which you judge is the measure with which you will be judged. The whole Matthew passage about the king who forgave the servant his debt, and then the servant went out and cracked the whip on his debtor. The Gospel is not about a name, or a religion. It's about The Message. Do unto others as you would have done to you. In this is all the law and the prophets.

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