Comments on: This is the End…of Evangelicalism, My Friend http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/ This blog needs a description! Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:45:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Charles http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19651 Charles Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:20:20 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19651 I don't read a three-rail option list in his blog. Look at Imago Dei and compare that with Life Church. Imago Dei is clergy led but the congregation is active as all get out. The church continues to bring the Kingdom into the city of Portland in creative ways that edifies the Body and makes me wish I had thought of it a long time ago. Life Church has XBOX stations in the youth rooms, barrista bars in the lobby and masses of people soaking up the disco balls, flashing lights and stage center. The actual sermon seems fine, but the entire worship is a show and the idea is to entertain the senses as the priority....and then everybody goes home or out to dinner, just like the brick shoe box models. Both churches have abandoned the brick shoe box model. The idea that the brick shoe box has no relevance is very true. It's the spiritual motivation behind any church, rather than the outward appearances or models. I am concerned about the same things. But I am also excited about new ways of worship and church that I believe are awesome and long needed. I don't read a three-rail option list in his blog.

Look at Imago Dei and compare that with Life Church. Imago Dei is clergy led but the congregation is active as all get out. The church continues to bring the Kingdom into the city of Portland in creative ways that edifies the Body and makes me wish I had thought of it a long time ago. Life Church has XBOX stations in the youth rooms, barrista bars in the lobby and masses of people soaking up the disco balls, flashing lights and stage center. The actual sermon seems fine, but the entire worship is a show and the idea is to entertain the senses as the priority….and then everybody goes home or out to dinner, just like the brick shoe box models.

Both churches have abandoned the brick shoe box model. The idea that the brick shoe box has no relevance is very true. It's the spiritual motivation behind any church, rather than the outward appearances or models.

I am concerned about the same things. But I am also excited about new ways of worship and church that I believe are awesome and long needed.

]]> By: Christov http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19447 Christov Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:34:16 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19447 I guess what I was saying is that both "models" are led by a religious professional up on stage in front of a largely passive audience that may be allowed to participate by singing, waving their hands, making ecstatic utterances, and so forth. The difference being the guys in astrodomes have abandoned theology and doctrine in favor of group hyperventilation that results in a tingly feeling that gets mistakenly attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit. High view of clergy/calling, low view of "sheep"/congregation. I guess what I was saying is that both "models" are led by a religious professional up on stage in front of a largely passive audience that may be allowed to participate by singing, waving their hands, making ecstatic utterances, and so forth. The difference being the guys in astrodomes have abandoned theology and doctrine in favor of group hyperventilation that results in a tingly feeling that gets mistakenly attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit. High view of clergy/calling, low view of "sheep"/congregation.

]]> By: Obed http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19442 Obed Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:30:39 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19442 This reminds me of some stuff I've dealt with recently. After leaving a church I had been at for over a decade, I started church shopping. I had a pretty similar mental response to the big non-denominational Evangelical places I visited. They were nice. They were entertaining. But I wish they hadn't called the event 'church.' It was more like going to a concert and lecture than going to a worship service. Like Patton, I find myself drawn toward an expression of the faith that is more rooted in the ancient heritage of Church. Philosophically, I jive with Anglicanism, but here in the States, the Episcopal Church really has some stuff they need to sort out. Lately, I've been attending Mass at a Roman Catholic place, 'cuz it's where my girlfriend goes. But I've got some serious theological issues with the Roman folks. I guess sometimes the ecclesiastical landscape seems really bleak to me. Christov does bring out a really interesting point, however: a lot of the more traditional churches are content to have a very passive laity. This is a bad, bad thing. However, what's the practial difference between a laity that's passive due to an over-emphasis on the clergy and a laity that's involved but ignorant to the Word/Truth due to weaksauce on the part of a 'seeker sensitive' environment and message? This reminds me of some stuff I've dealt with recently. After leaving a church I had been at for over a decade, I started church shopping. I had a pretty similar mental response to the big non-denominational Evangelical places I visited. They were nice. They were entertaining. But I wish they hadn't called the event 'church.' It was more like going to a concert and lecture than going to a worship service.

Like Patton, I find myself drawn toward an expression of the faith that is more rooted in the ancient heritage of Church. Philosophically, I jive with Anglicanism, but here in the States, the Episcopal Church really has some stuff they need to sort out. Lately, I've been attending Mass at a Roman Catholic place, 'cuz it's where my girlfriend goes. But I've got some serious theological issues with the Roman folks.

I guess sometimes the ecclesiastical landscape seems really bleak to me.

Christov does bring out a really interesting point, however: a lot of the more traditional churches are content to have a very passive laity. This is a bad, bad thing. However, what's the practial difference between a laity that's passive due to an over-emphasis on the clergy and a laity that's involved but ignorant to the Word/Truth due to weaksauce on the part of a 'seeker sensitive' environment and message?

]]> By: Christov http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19296 Christov Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:35:10 +0000 http://stevebrownetc.com/blogs/the-guest-room/this-is-the-end%e2%80%a6of-evangelicalism-my-friend/#comment-19296 What this is about is the same high view of clergy/ordination and correspondingly low view of laity that's resulted in the current state of church-as-usual and a corresponding desire among many to "do church" differently, or, to be cool about "church different." Essentially you've got one guy with the requisite alphabet soup and club membership saying, "My model of clergy-led laity-passive church is traceable to the early reformers equals true orthopraxy and is therefore 'treasure,' whereas the model touted and led by a new generation of 'seeker-sensitive' personality and feelings driven cultist gurus is clearly something other than 'church.'" Do we only have three choices - Rome, Atheism, or The Brick Shoebox (even if you actually live in the shoebox?)? What this is about is the same high view of clergy/ordination and correspondingly low view of laity that's resulted in the current state of church-as-usual and a corresponding desire among many to "do church" differently, or, to be cool about "church different."

Essentially you've got one guy with the requisite alphabet soup and club membership saying, "My model of clergy-led laity-passive church is traceable to the early reformers equals true orthopraxy and is therefore 'treasure,' whereas the model touted and led by a new generation of 'seeker-sensitive' personality and feelings driven cultist gurus is clearly something other than 'church.'"

Do we only have three choices - Rome, Atheism, or The Brick Shoebox (even if you actually live in the shoebox?)?

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