Joe Johnson March 20th, 2008

Steve,

Once again, if you are far right of Genghis Kahn, you may have moved a whole other sphere of thinking that doesn't exist within the borders of us regular left/right people.

As a guy who is leaning to the left (y'know, the "sinister" side), it's been amazing to me how excited all of my right-side friends and family (which is, essentially every one in those categories) have been about this story, and how quickly they've used it to say, "See. There. Now I'm definitely not voting for that Obama. He hates America!"

Like you, they weren't going to vote for him anyway. But unlike you, they used this situation as proof of what they needed to believe.

It looks like you have may have even read or listened to Obama's speech. I kept bringing that up: "Well, what did you think of his response?", "Did you think that he spoke about it enough?", "What about his perspective do you think still proves "Hussein" Obama is a Black Panther, United Church of Christian-Muslims, sleeper cell candidate?".

None of them bothered to read it, because there's nothing he could say. Nothing could make what was said acceptable. Nothing could distinguish Obama from his friends, his family, his roots. The response always goes back to Rev. Wright. Yes.

I remember in 2004 sitting at a table with Dr. Richard Land (head of the Southern Baptist "Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission") shortly after President Bush's re-election. I said nothing. And fortunately, the person who brought me said nothing about my political polarity. You could taste the pride - the self-pleasure in that room about the passage of certain legislation and the "thank God (literally) that President Bush won." It was a celebration of America getting back on track with our Christian heritage, our Christian values and our friends holding power.

But what struck me was how Dr. Land described the relationship of some in the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) leadership. In a story, told fondly with a grin, Dr. Land described himself, Page Patterson (president of Southwestern Baptist who is currently at a trial for firing a woman because he doesn't think women should be allowed to teach men theological things) and Jerry Falwell (who's deeds and words are known to us all, and who became a greatly celebrated member, with his church, of the SBC) - riding with President Bush. Visiting President Bush in the Oval Office. And how Mr. Falwell asked the President if this was the place that Monica went down on Clinton. Nice.

Laughter followed within the assembly of pastors, ethicists and lay leadership.

These are my people. All of them…. Family.

Reaction « re-dreaming the dream March 20th, 2008

[…] Thanks to Steve Brown.  (You can read the entire post here.)  […]

Chris March 20th, 2008

Steve,

You can say Rev. Wright is about Jesus, but it sure doesn't seem that way. That's how it should be, of course - I just don't see much evidence of that.

If you check out the church's website, there's actually very little mention of Jesus anywhere on it, while there's a lot of stuff about being black.

Can you have Campolo back on, so we can hear what he has to say about all this?

John March 21st, 2008

After reading your blog post I went onto youtube and took a look at the videos for myself. Rev. Wright may have been mildly over the top. But only mildly. There was no frog picked up and eaten. Maybe a frog was found picked up nuzzled with his nose, but that is much more mild than what you're describing.

I think if white evangelicalism were more familiar with liberation theology and its derivatives his comments would contextualize. But until Rev. Wright is approached on the common soil of understanding (which did not happen in his interview with hannity), his comments won't make sense.

I think you're in error to chalk it up in the "saying stupid things" category.

G Man March 22nd, 2008

I dont see how Obama could listen to those comments for 20 years and not change churches. That man is a racist! If John McCain's pastor would have said anything like that about black people, John McCain would have gotten burned at the stake.

I was considering voting for obama, but now I am worried that Obama is a closet racist, so there is no way I am voting for him. I will have to vote for John McCain.

Even if Pastor Wright didnt say anything racist in his commentary, how could a so called "pastor" talk in that tone in the house of God. I mean he said S*#t in his sermon! How could a pastor swear and say things like in church! I think there is something wrong with Pastor Wright, cause you cant say things like that in church.

Mmike March 25th, 2008

Obama addressed things in his speech that no one on an influencial political platform has addressed in nearly forty years. His speech was bigger than this presidential race. People really fail to realize the huge cultural riff between white American culture and black American culture. There are two different views currently circling regarding this speech. The people who see it as some sort of attempt to disclaim, or explain Rev. Wright's comments (poorly), and then there are the people who knew the racial "s*#t" would hit the metaphorical fan concerning Obama, and we're blown away by the humility and frankness with which he addressed what everyone knew would come up. After the civil war, the slaves were freed only to fall into an even worse existance under the Black Code and the Jim Crow laws. Martin Luther King Jr. and Co. gained equal rights for the first time in American history, only to be assasinated, and the black city streets all over the US flooded with cocaine, and guns and violence like never before. The civil rights struggle isn't over. Obama winning or not, his words will ring on for decades. We should all take very seriously what he has said.

tim March 26th, 2008

Couldn't agree more Mmike…

I also thought it was fascinating how while he condemned Wright's comments he was careful not to condemn the man or just disown himself from him. He could have easily sacrificed his friend for his career, but he didn't. That takes some stones in this political environment imho.

Brian March 26th, 2008

Let's not forget Obama's disregard for "obscure passages in scripture" which do not fit his Political Agenda. Hey, this is Politics….as in all politics, they'll say anything to get elected. One hell of a speach though however!!

Mmike March 26th, 2008

Research the history of the freed slaves in the south and what happened to them. The Black codes, convict lease programs, Jim Crow laws, the state and federal government's open acceptance of the Ku Klux Klan as a christian moral centered organization. Read some of the stories about what happened in these black communities. It'll make you cry. Racism is alive and well in the South. Genesis 9. Biblical arguement for slavery. You've heard it. I was taught it. My great grand father was an immigrant, my grand father a businessman, my father a navy vet. Their great great grandfathers were slaves. Their great grandfathers, convicts under absurd black laws that did life on chain gangs and in cotton fields in much worse conditions than their slave fathers. Their grandfathers following in the same footsteps, or suffering intimidation and horrible violence if they were lucky enough to not be in prison. And their fathers, for the first time, saw the government give them equal rights as blacks, just to hear people tell them "it over, you have your "equality" now stop complaining. The civil war ended in 1865, get over it." Yea…. Obama opened Pandora's Box…… and I think it's about time

Brian March 26th, 2008

That was then…..now is now…..I think most folks are tired of rehashing the horid history. We also stole this land from the Indians…"befriended them" only to see them brutally beat, tortured, and used them as slaves too. Hey, we weren't there to take part in any of it….and maybe we wouldn't have….so why continue bringing up what can't be changed? I work for a black boss at work, have no problem with him whatsoever. Let's take the race card out, altogether shall we?? Forget the past, it only serves to hold today's generation to feel guilty (or sorry) for something they did not do.

I think Obama is not being straight with the American People with his true feelings on issues. Anyone claiming to be a "christian" should not be granted the liberty of picking and choosing what scripture passages they feel are obscure and not obscure. the passage in Romans to which Obama referred is "not" abscure. In fact, nothing in the Scripture as a "christian" should ever be labeled as "obscure". Try telling God that His Word is "obscure". I don't trust anyone in Govt. much less "christian" politicians pawning off votes to get elected. Obama is less than he thinks he is…and so are we.

Brian March 26th, 2008

Not to mention, we "enslaved" the chinese to build our railroad system out west…should we be offering a generation to generation payoff in some way?? This country's history toward Jews hasn't exactly been so kind either. But both of these groups have worked their butts off to put their children at the top of the food chain in American business. Don't forget about the Irish….(my ancestors) who worked as cheap slave laborers to build the continental railroad from 1850 through the Civil War. The Indians probably deserve the most for their historical atrocity in the USA…..Land stolen, murdered, pushed to reservations…..until oil is was discovered, then moved again! Can anyone imagine if we did this to the black community??? No, don't go toting the race card as a means of how bad things are……b/c it works both ways today and achieves nothing toward resolving the problems of the past. Things have come a long way for black American's as have the rest of the melting pot of ethnic america…..and it's too bad that most who will be voting for Obama would not be so willing to support Hillary if somehow she pulled off the nomination…why??? Like I said, the race card goes both ways….and perhaps always will until we can get beyond the racial divide to the character and principles which govern a person for why or why not they should be worth a White house bid. Obama states he is about change, but goes into little detail about what He actually intends to do….and little known about what he's actually done. But since that doesn't seem to matter, Either way, God is still sovereign, regardless of which puppet gets the bid The beckoning control of a Godless Govt has you rendering unto Ceasar exactly what they want you to do. Until the "system" is truly what it appears, your vote really doesn't make a difference anyway. Can you say Super Delegate????
: )))))))

g-rock March 27th, 2008

i actually agree with that last post brian…

anyway, i am tired of hearing the race issue brought up… does bigotry and racism exist? damn right it does… and it probably always will… however, we are nowhere near the level of atrocity we have stooped to in the past… it still exists though…but not only against blacks… there's white's who are prejudice against blacks, blacks against whites, whites against spanish, spanish against asian, whites against middle easterners… i can go on and on… the cycle never ends…

like you were getting at with your post earlier brian, practically EVERY race has experienced hatred and oppression… i am irish too… should i go and start a campaign to bash the brits for oppressing my ancestors? that's nuts! i had nothing to do with them! by no means am i diminishing the horrors that some people had to experience due to racism… however, we live in a much more culturally diverse age… i grew up and still live in the NYC area… my friends growing up were white, black, spanish, and some asian… we never saw each other as "black" or "white", etc… we just saw each other as friends… now as for all lthe talk about blacks or other races not getting fair opportunities in the workplace… unless you live in a rural area, i say that statement is BS… from the time i was in the military, to the company i work for now, i have had black supervisors and many black coworkers, along with a bunch of other races… i have seen them get the same opportunities (if not more) as i did… all this crying about atrocities that happened a long time ago doesn't do a damn thing… it gets you all worked up, creates this oppressed mentality, and keeps you living in the PAST… the truth is we are way beyond that… no doubt, all the hatred that blacks had to experience in the 50's and 60's makes me utterly pissed off… just like ANY other human being who has to experience hatred from another person or group really angers me… i guess what i'm trying to say is, let's all stop the bitchin' and move on…

one thing i also wonder is, why don't the jews demand reparations from germans? after the shit they had to go through….

g-rock March 27th, 2008

what is funny about all this too is that i'm still considering to vote for obama…

G Man March 27th, 2008

Obama makes stuff up, just like Hillary and her sniper incident that didnt happen.

Obama is a professional politician (aka professional liar) and says whatever he things people want to hear. You cant believe a word he says!

Mmike March 27th, 2008

I agree. I believe Americans are ready for an adult conversation on the social/political/racial diversity in America today without the usual finger pointing and childish antics. I honestly don't see much of a difference between Rev. Wright's condemnation of "america" for distributing crack, building bigger prisons, etc etc, and Rev. Hagee's claim of Katrina as God's condemnation on "america" for gays, or Rev. Falwell's claim of 9/11 as God's condemnation of "america" for abortion, feminism, homosexuality, and the secularization of society. They were all pretty dumb things to say. Obama did the right thing in what he said. I doubt anyone in his position, of any race, could have addressed the situation any better than he did.

Mmike March 27th, 2008

no, I don't agree with G Man, what the other guy said…

Brian March 27th, 2008

What do you all think….If Jesus were here, would he go to vote? Who do you think Jesus would vote for and why? Or Would He be appalled at what Politics has become and attempt to flip over the voting booths held at Churches on Voting day? What say ye? : )))

Mmike March 28th, 2008

Right on man. Right on.

klab April 22nd, 2008

you have got to be kidding!

I watched Obama on the stupid box the other night and let me tell you this man is oily and he was saying he doesn't care if your black white yellow hispanic black or gay lol ok so black two times then as if to switch gears after the hesitation he says gay. ok but all I could hear was nothing nothing real nothing but words, the race card is played to win to creat a moat if you will and they are both playing it somehow lol bill / hiland oboma. where does it leave this country?

Thomas Ortiz April 28th, 2008

Most white Christians ( not all ) cannot in any way empathize with the poor, and frankly I really feel sorry for you. Jesus calls us to love the poor because we were in the same state spiritually, and not deserving of his mercy and grace. It's ok though, just repent and admit that you guys are borderline rascists and if you keep reading the gospels through the lens of the oppressed and poor you might be able to realize what the kingdom is all about. Try meditating on the sermon on the mount it might work. Try reading some of Dietrich Bonhoffers works also, check out his excerpt in "the cost of discipleship" called 'the view from below'. Also check out his sermon on cheap grace… Also how can Christians be so arrogant to tell Blacks to get over rascism when just 45 years ago our country was divided by aparthied like policies? It going to take at least a couple of more generations for the collective phsycological damage to be undone. It's sad because if this country keeps going in the direction that its going in black people are going to have to save your asses again (Martin Luther King) but then again, it might be some Mexican guy. You guys don't get it though.

Erik April 28th, 2008

Hey Thomas,

Thanks for stopping by. For a great conversation on this topic, check this show out.

Charles Curtis May 8th, 2008

It's hard to get over a past cruelty. Then again, a nursed vengence is more addictive than meth, totally unquenchable and a form of self-torture.

But it makes great t.v. and movies. Clint Eastwood has made a fortune of the same storyline.

Thomas Ortiz May 9th, 2008

Curtis you said "Its hard to get over a past cruelty". Your assessment is partially true. The reality is, most Blacks and other people of color who spew invectives probably and do want vengeance. However, by and large most Black Christians who come across as angry when giving whites a peice of their mind when it comes to matters of race and politics, do not HATE white people or wish for your demise. They just want you to wake up and realize that you are bieng co-opted by the world and its standards. I wholeheartily agree with Rev. Wright's perspectives when it comes to goverments role in oppressing other countries ( although I don't agree with him using the words 'God dam America!") and I have very close Christian friends who are white and conservative politicly, and I love them very much. Always remember that iron sharpens iron, not iron sharpens butter! It's perfectly ok to have a difference of opinion as Christian brothers and sisters and even walk away bleeding a little bit because we'll walk a way with a little more understanding. But as long as we demonize and close the avenues for communication we remain ignorant and self centered.

Charles Curtis May 9th, 2008

Everyone's co-opted by standards that suit their vested interests, not just white people. There are no pristine people in this mess. You have to presume that in Liberation Theology. Dividing up the world into categories of oppressed and oppressors is adding more kindling on a fire started by the tyrants. Jesus had Zionist Zealots AND Roman-commissioned tax collectors in His intimate group, without any documented tension between them. Jesus wasn't a liberation theologist. He was and is the Prince of Peace.

Liberation Theology is also naive. Good people have some bad skeletons in their closet and bad people have their good points. Corporately, we are always bad. We like to call it 'necessary evils' but it is simply human nature cut loose in corporate form. That goes for the government and the Rainbow Push Coaliltion. The church even has issues in dealing with this. Yet, comparitively/globally speaking, America is wonderful compared to most countries, especially the ones who are the most critical of us. The fact Wright isn't executed or in jail now is evidence of how great and tolerant we really are, compared to our detractors.

The impact of racism and rejection is revealed in his anger, paranoia and his rhetoric, not the truth in what he is saying….that much, I do understand him sympathize with him. I see a man that has been hurt and needs healing, rather than someone bringing light into darkness.

BTW, I am a card carrying Indian, have Irish and Jewish ancestors as well. I think everyone owes me $500.

G-rock May 9th, 2008

I'm Irish too. Send me a cut of that money, will ya?

Thomas May 12th, 2008

Curtis your assessment of America being wonderful comparatively/globally speaking is not well informed. In fact I would go as far as to say that your sources are primarily American. Try talking to somebody that is from outside the country (and who's not mowing your lawn) and then you can get a better perspective on American foreign policy and her interests at the expense of the poor. Most Christian Americans worldview when it comes to the third world sounds more like it's influenced by Machiavelli than Jesus… I just think that white people have no right to criticize and make a judgement call on Wright when the log is so obviously hanging out of the cranium of your people. But you know what, you guys have a right to your opinion because thats all it is no more, no less, see ya!

Brian May 12th, 2008

The Rev Wright actually makes some accurate and Wise assessments of America buried beneath the "attitude". On one hand, you have Hannity in total disgust…..and critical. On the other hand, unlike Hannity, beneath every "real" Christian, exists (or should) a biblical reality which understands how this "politicaly "godless" nation deserves some sort of judgement. But for people who profess that God isn't mad at us…..We know that his plans supercede all plans, and that His judgment falls on the just and the unjust alike. Hell, why wouldn't we all be just as deserving?? It's those who think they "don't deserve any judgment who's self righteousness blinds them from the grace they "think" they've received. A country full of hypocrits most surely could use a weed out program by the hand of God. We see this biblically, what makes anyone think it shouldn't happen to us??

Nancy May 20th, 2008

Steve,
I liked your post, but am actually commenting on something else. I've read the first five chapters of A Scandalous Freedom and felt so strongly about it that I had to write a post on my blog about it. When looking around and doing a little research prior to writing it, I was delighted to find your blog. I will now be one of your regular readers. Thanks for showing me the freedom I didn't realize I had.

Charles June 2nd, 2008

Thomas,

I have to agree with you about part of that. The only people that I talked to from outside the country had immigrated at great cost and time, just to get out of their homeland and get here.

I don't understand how a country can be worse than most and yet have a huge immigration problem.

Charles June 2nd, 2008

Brian,

I agree that we are a country of hypocrites. But the world is overpopulated with hypocrites. It's not an American thing. For countries who condone mercy killings and death to infidels claim America has a poor record with civil liberties, is something out of a Monty Python skit.

Scott July 21st, 2008

I feel like I've missed the boat on this conversation, but have enjoyed reading what everybody has contributed and wanted to share my two cents worth. To begin with, I make no claims to understanding the injustices that any of the ethnicities have experienced. I come from a pretty mixed bag, most of it being white European. I also haven't taken the time to read up on Liberation Theology, but enjoy the idea of liberty. I have heard some of what Rev. Wright preached and I really didn't find it that offensive because I'm not into nationalism (I will clarify later). I love ethnic groups and I love the differences. I agree with Thomas that there are many (not just Whites) who don't empathize with the poor and needy. I agree with Brian that ethnic injustice is not a new thing and has gone on for quite some time (though not always in a political atmosphere similar to our own).

What irks me though is this… we seem to have the "disciple dilemma" in reverse. The disciples were certain that Christ had come to save them from the Romans and bring restoration to Israel, establishing His throne forever. We realize that Jesus had to prove God's love to a lost world, but the disciples didn't realize that until He had been resurrected. We are so very focused on the Gospel, and rightfully so, but we seem to forget that Jesus really will establish a real physical Kingdom and that we are to live as members of that kingdom. In James 2.5-7, James makes the appeal to the brethren to not despise the poor among them on this basis (that they will be heirs of Christ's Kingdom). Paul makes a bold statement saying that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free… Christ is all in all. Only in Christ does the promises of Isaiah 65.17-25 come true. As I have said, I am not a nationalist. I have no hope that human beings will right every injustice; usually human efforts just lead to even more injustices and bitterness. In Christ we have a righteousness we could not have earned, a relationship we do not deserve, a resurrection we cannot begin to imagine, and entrance into a kingdom we could not create. Again, I don't disagree with all that Rev. Wright has had to say (in what little I have heard); I just love listening to the black preachers who are more heavenly minded better. All the political talk just appeals to my flesh… my spirit longs for that kingdom which will bring justice and peace. Come Lord Jesus, come.