Motion carried.

1. Talk about homosexuals and the Church.

2. Start a thread on our Forums about all this.

3. Take a deep breath and go enjoy the day.

I'm just trying to keep up with all of this. Seems we've left "Homosexuals and the Church" long ago.

Placing a greater "Authority" on "feeling and experience" than on the Scriptures themselves cannot possbily result in "biblcal repentance" and is therefor no different than any charasmatic or clever guru sprinkling anecdotes instead of Scripture to foster their causes, in this case, the Neo Grace agenda. He routinely denounces others adherance to "biblical authority" and states,

"Whenever religion becomes leverage, it ceases to be the religion of Jesus. The gospel of God's grace takes away the leverage."

Does it take it away?? Does not the Gospel of Grace then become the leverage?? Is Grace all there is to the Gospel?? Why stop there?? Universalists would also be in hearty agreement!! Were we saved just to "experience" (there's that word again) forgiveness?? Or rather isn't this just a part of biblical sanctification involving repentance, the working out of that salvation you've received, and the living out of a life passionately resonating and making a difference with that faith in a steadfast obedience to Scripture. Neo Grace says not! It says you are entitled to feel forgiven without true repentance, that God is "crazy about you" when in fact the "unrepentant" sinner grieves the Holy Spirit and may still be actually be unsaved and under the wrath of God! No where in Scripture do we see a God who states that He loves us "unconditionally". This is why it borders on Universalism. It absolutely promotes and creates a comfort zone where sin can be president, as well as resident, and thus allowing one to create an attitude of thinking that God is never offended by the sin of a believer…so one needn't be too concerned about it….sin get's tossed and joked about so flipantly and callously as if it's not really that important anymore on the "Blog". Repentance and obedience are soon left in the dust and replaced with a narcisistic and even egotistical reactionary response toward the traditional reformed views of repentance and obedience…which at some point, will may result in a theological "shift" in changing our understanding of the character of God..and turns it more into a "caracature"….or cartoon version of the Gospel.

Steve also states,

"You see, if I'm forgiven without condition, you can't make me feel guilty. If God loves me, you can't manipulate me by threatening to take away your love. If God knows my secrets and doesn't condemn me, my secrets can't be used as blackmail. If you have power and threaten to use it against me and I don't care, your power is no longer real power."

Let's examine this. This might be true…..if God's Word didn't say in Ephesians 4:30: " And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption". If it is possible to grieve God, then what Steve is saying cannot be true. This also causes one to negate even having to think about I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and rightous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrightousness". Why would God write this to "believers" if He no longer wanted us to think we could never offend Him with our sin as Steve states??

Let's take the next point where Steve writes,
" If God loves me, you can't manipulate me by threatening to take away your love".

God's love is not something we should take for granted either, which is just as manipulating as God would be to threaten to take it back! (although He would have every right!!) This again, is reactionary. It's a dangerous thing to create a doctrine on a hyperbole. Having God's love doesn't mean we ever had the "right" to it. It's still Christ's rightousness applied which makes us get along at all with God. If we take sin lightly, we certainly have it coming from others who will and should be offended by it, and perhaps expecting they should "just forgive" so freely is taking advantage and just as manipulative??

Thirdly, Steve states,

" If you have power and threaten to use it against me and I don't care, your power is no longer real power."

Ok, what about the case of those spending eternity in Hell , even their apathetic attutude does not invalidate the REAL power of God! In terms of relation to others, many of those in power also don't care, and any amount of apathy you can muster won't make a difference to them one bit. It only serves to feed one's own pride, serving as though a way to strike back with a stiff upper lip without any effectual cause at all.

Yes, There is a shift in Theology in Reformed Circles, and this is one in which you should all be aware. It's very reactionary….and not revolutionary. If Sarcasm is the hallmark of our Gospel campaign, then it's sin that attracts those who find solice in such whinery. Love without reason is not love at all, and it is a real shame what takes place here. What is supposed to be cutting edge in an attempt to strenghthen believers in their faith, only serves to make those who follow this Neo Grace Movement empowered….and for all the wrong reasons.

I couldn't resist…we all need to smile or roll our eyes now and then.

There's a mindset within the christian subculture that operates on a rather quirky reading of Jesus' words in John 15: "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." Combine that with the mindset that "God's word is as plain as the nose on your face," and you get this subset of persons who now have carte blanche to pronounce "THE TRUTH" (which is actually just their own–or, worse, someone else's– opinion of how their favorite translation of scripture should be interpreted) with no regard for their condescending and deprecative manner. When they're called on the carpet for being such tools, their response is something like, "Yay, I'm pissing people off. I must be doing something right. THIS must be the very CENTER of God's WILL!" [/cue-ode-to-joy].

Just an observation…

Now,
Brian,

Let me be clear. My blah, blah comment was specifically in regard to the fact that this dead-horse of a thread is still being kicked after almost eight months! Over two hundred and fifty comments later, nothing has been accomplished, except the same old arguments being argued from the same old quarters. I've read a hundred threads just like this one over the years. After the initial opinions have been offered, the homosexuality discussion always devolves into people talking just to hear themselves talk, as if the last person to comment or the person with the highest word count somehow wins. So mine was a comment on the futility of this discussion, in general.

But, lest you think I am still in denial, let me also be clear about my disrespect for your self-righteous posturing. Early in this thread, you condemned someone for their "sinful sarcasm," but then resorted to sarcasm yourself in subsequent comments. You refused to answer Jefe's legitimate questions, and called him a swine, unworthy of your "pearls" of wisdom. Further, you implied that he couldn't perceive truth because he wasn't "in." Then, you pull a statement from it's proper context in a particular translation of Proverbs and present it as a stand-alone universal truism. I'm sorry, but, in my opinion (which I acknowledge as just that), you represent the worst kind of pharisaical truth-twisting.

And, before you turn the tables and announce to everyone what kind of terrible christian I am, let me save you the trouble. I'm clearly an imperfect man. I don't always live according to what I profess, and I'm in need of repentance. Today, I need to repent for allowing yet another self-righteous snake to draw me into a rage. What I wouldn't give to have that time back.

Thanks for the forgiveness, though…