Thomas November 29th, 2008

That was a great interview. I loved how you guys rankled him throughout, he needs his ego to be checked once in a while… I used to download Mark Driscoll's sermons all the time but stopped because he came off at times like he's a wanna be tough guy. He probably got picked on as a little kid and now he overcompensates now as an adult except now he's a pastor. Like why would you joke around about beating up your elders while preaching out of the pulpit, especially when you have a church in house mess that your trying to clean up( its on youtube ). I could never sit under someones leadership who likes to use the pulpit to bully people. As a Pastor it's very UN- Christ like to come across as someone who likes to use intimidation tactics when people challenge his authority, I mean, if your 5'2 and you make tough guy comments out of the pulpit than its definitely a joke, but when your a big guy who has no problem using mma extreme fighting techniques as applications for your teaching/ preaching, than I'm sorry, I would say he's a bit spiritually immature and shouldn't be leading people. I live in NYC and let me tell you, if you need security officers, police officers, bullet proof vests to protect you and your a Pastor it's probably because you like to run your mouth. I'm in the inner city in brooklyn and the only pastors that need security are the one's who rip off their congregation or like to talk smack out of the pulpit. This dude is in Seattle and he needs security? Like, who's he afraid of, garage band gangsters?lol! And check this out, what he doesn't know is Joel Olstien is a black belt, I would love to see a cage match between those two so Driscoll can get humbled by a 145 pound prosperity preacher!

estuardo November 29th, 2008

Thomas,

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had the same impression about this guy. I think he was speaking truth, but his delivery and tact were much to be desired. I checked out the web sites posted for Resurgence.com, and the Porn Again Christian. Neither site is for the weak at heart. It's interesting that he needs to use security and bodyguards. I felt, like what it says in 1Cor. 13, that even though he may speak the truth, if it has no love, it's just noise, and I really didn't sense the love from him at all. Thanks for the insight.

Thomas November 29th, 2008

Having said that, I think that the leaders in the evangelical, post evangelical or whatever you want to call it, Church, have the right and duty to critique the book if there are essential theological problems. But at the same time I think it's very easy for Christian leaders to blast this book as heretical and get everybody worked up into a frenzy, and meanwhile these same evangelical leaders won't for a second, critique our nation when it goes off to a war that was totally unjust and not only critique, but SANCTION the war as the will of God, which I have heard come out of many Christian circles. That's just one illustration of hypocrisy, there are many others that the Church convieniently turns it's political head from. So hey, if turning the shack into a convenient heretical scapegoat to give the appearance that the gatekeepers of Christendom are doing their job even though they are contaminated with the same worldviews as our secular, atheistic, militaristic, infanticidistic, racist, individualistic and materialistic country, then I guess their orthodox right? Besides I don't think the book claims to be a study guide for the bible, it's a novel. And I don't need the nannies in Christiandom to tell me that I will shipwreck my soul if I read it.

Derek November 30th, 2008

I used to enjoy Mark Driscoll's humor and preaching style, but he has become so needlessly abrasive lately that I can hardly listen to him anymore. I don't mind people critiquing emergent or even The Shack honestly and thoughtfully, but the "doctine-police" thing is wearing very thin. Thank you Steve for asking the tough questions. I hope it may convince Mark to tone it down and be a little more grace-filled with people who aren't exactly like him and see things differently.

Obed December 2nd, 2008

This is a bit off the main topic of this show, but at the end of the broadcast the yearly futile attempt to curb Steve's humbugness about Christmas was mentioned. I wonder if the Old White Guy might dig some Advent stuff instead. For example, I'm trying to keep my inner Scrooge in check this year by spending time in the Advent readings from the lectionary.

Steve's buddy iMonk has some great stuff on his site about Advent, not that I expect the Old White Guy to become Mr. Christmas or anything.

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-joseph-bottum-on-the-end-of-advent-and-the-horror-of-our-version-of-christmas

Mark Driscoll on The Shack « Voice of the Sheep December 6th, 2008

[…] Mark Driscoll stands his ground concerning the serious problems with the book, The Shack. Click HERE, and forward to right at 27 minutes into the […]

davidjames December 8th, 2008

I am in agreement with pretty much all of the ego and doctrine assessments above so I won't expound on that. What hasn't been mentioned and what really bothered me was this guys endorsement of MMA fighting? Excuse me? has anyone here actually watched much of it? I can't say I have seen a lot, it sickens me too much, but I have seen enough to know that it is not a positive "sport" for anyone to be emulating. And the sad truth is that just like baseball, football, and basketball used to be the sandlot/backlot sports that kids mimicked, now it is MMA fighting and the results are not pretty. This is not boxing, this not scholastic wrestling…it is something quite different with a violence level that is not uplifting of anything or anyone. Don't get me wrong, I am not some peace activist weenie…I played contact sports and come from a long line of people who are large and aggressive and have had their share of bar fights and brawls….and MMA is little more than sanctioned bar fights for the extra large of ego….it really troubled me to hear his guy tie it in so positively with his Christian message.

As for the Christmas thing…I would strongly advise Steve to read a little book, probably an hour's read, called "$100 Holiday" by Bill McKibben. Now I know Steve will probably think Bill is a tree hugging democrat and he may be, but he speaks a powerful message about Christmas and has been doing so for 12 years!

Steve Brown Etc. » Blog Archive » Etcetera - 12.10.08 - Adventing December 11th, 2008

[…] - Mark Driscoll on SBE […]

JOE December 11th, 2008

did any of you actually hear this conversation?

most of the comments posted here have nothing to do with the subjects at hand, and even when they do - they are peripheral at best. we can all do with less whining and complaining. man up and take it on the chin - if you don't like what someone says, examine yourself first. this is pathetic.

Erik December 12th, 2008

Is that you Pastor Driscoll?

Derek December 12th, 2008

Yeah, whatever "Joe".

Jack December 12th, 2008

Sounds to me like "pastor" Driscol could use John Fischer's book for recovering pharisee's. Chill out, the book is a fiction novel.

Thomas December 13th, 2008

Sorry Joe but it's the peripheral items that undermine his credibility. Should I post the youtube clips to further bolster my argument? Driscoll joked around about beating up his elders in the middle of all the in house turmoil that surrounded the firing of a pastor and elder from your board. Hey, maybe he was justified in eliminating those two slots from his board, but there was obvious discord in the congregation because some people weren't in agreement. So to use the pulpit to further alienate people in your congregation just because they disagree with you is a bit immature if you ask me. Joe, I say we should settle this in a octagon in NYC, Any bar or Church basement will do. Maybe we can duke it out at revolution Church,Jim Bakers sons Church, in the lower east side!lol! If I kick your butt Driscoll has to put the elders back on the board!! Eric you can ref it…

Derek December 15th, 2008

Yikes. Just type "driscoll" and "elders" into the youtube search engine and you will find some disgusting stuff. "Shut up and do as your told." "Shut up and drink your juice box." Ummm. This guy is supposed to be "edgy"? Pastors telling people who question them to shut up is just American church as-usual. Why does Steve Brown keep talking to this guy?

Erik December 15th, 2008

Grace.

Bob December 15th, 2008

Interesting. Steve and Mark have a courteous discussion about many things, and a bunch of you use it to blast Mark concerning things you know about from from what some people have said on YouTube. I mean, I don't know anything about those issues, but I know that people have been lied about on the Internet before. Maybe Youtbe has the smoking gun on Mark, and maybe it doesn't. In any case, not having read the Shack, I can't speak to the disagreement between Steve and Mark, but what we heard was a model of how such discussions ought to be carried out. I think I'd probably side with Steve, but Driscoll seems fine, especially perhaps his take on the porn issue.

Thomas December 17th, 2008

One reason I really struggle with the institutional Church is because of people like Bob. Something could be smelling like s–t, but they'll say " your just imagining things, it smells like roses, it's all in your own head! ". I'm not saying that Driscoll is a heritic or anything, and I don't want to be his judge, well maybe I do, but it pains me when I see weaker people being overtaken by stronger ones. I gotta chill though cause God made him and He see's all.